Where do we go from here?

[Charlie_B]

The words are coming out all weird / Where are you now, when I need you

So, I started a new game using my standard settings (Random leader/Fractal/Immortal/Epic/No ruins) and rolled Denmark, which was great because I've not played with them recently.

I had quite an isolated start, and I've only now discovered some of my fellow civs. I'm quite a way behind, which isn't too surprising for Immortal but I'm concerned that the land available to me isn't great and if a rival civ gets going they could build up quite a head of steam.

Thinking I was possibly playing a snaky, island-filled map I rushed for The Great Lighthouse, which is very unusual for me. I'm three techs into Liberty and 8 turns away from Philosophy. I'm also 1 turn away from the first religion of the game.

So, the question is - where would you go from here?

Edit: It's either Small or Standard size. Whichever has 8 civs by default. I've not got BNW.

 

[Martin Alvito]

You really needed more cities than that by now.

With an isolated start like that, it's generally best to go for a Science or Diplomatic win. Culture demands a lot of hammers, and the dirt you got saddled with is decidedly mediocre. Your inability to leverage Caravans for early is also going to make it tough to get critical Wonders for Culture.

If you actually got the GL, then that's a pretty disappointing start. Fractal doesn't really demand Optics, though I can see pushing it for a Lighthouse given the dirt. That said, you're not producing nearly enough to grow properly, especially given the push for Optics. Stop building things and start focusing on growth. Taking Masonry for one Stone in the capital and one in the second city that you haven't even border popped was inadvisable, and has held up your progress badly.

I'd recommend expansion past Marrakech, throwing your at a Library in that city and getting the NC as soon as possible. I'd then beeline Civil Service and Education, get my Unis and then just tech the AI into the ground and launch a spaceship. A Diplo win could be tough with three cities, lousy dirt and lousy trade possibilities.

 

[UnofficialJoe]

just a small tip I'd advise going Pangaea or maybe continents you tend to get a much more fun game out those maps rather than fractal however whatever you enjoy is what's best to play on anyways

 

[evilcat]

Provide save files pls, both initial, and last.

As for what to do: fix your science. Build libraries and National College. With just 2 cities, that would be a benefit. Drop 3rd city betwean CS and cargo ship fed it. Finish Liberty and drop academy near capital. Before rationalism you probably will have spare SP. So consulates always good. (you may pledge to protect before).

But then... why not, some man-o-war action? If you started with Liberty and not Tradicion then chances for super tall SV are slimer. You may convice Alex to fight Ramzes. And after hoppites outdate attac him. Let Ramzess build all this sweat wonders and then conquere his capital to. And then... you can switch to whatever.

 

[Charlie_B]

Well, I've played on a bit (see the spoiler below). Here are some saves for people who are interested.

I've also edited my original post as it was rather misleading - I built The Great Lighthouse, not Library.

Martin Alvito - thanks for the comments. Given the poor land do you not think a turtle science victory would be pretty difficult? A diplo win against Alex may be a challenge as well - or would you try to take him out along the way? I'm particularly worried that the capital will struggle to get any higher than the teens for population which seems like a big hinderance. I take the point that an isolated start is a benefit to be leveraged but I'm not sure how far it will get me, particularly when Denmark's UUs and UA are so heavily war focused.

As for Masonry - I managed to improve the stone and get a stone works in there before starting on the Lighthouse, and the +3 were pretty helpful. It may be felt that building a lighthouse in a cit ywith no fish is a ... strange decision.

UnofficialJoe - I quite like the random nature of Fractal maps, and was getting a bit tired of war-heavy Pangea games on high levels. I do mix up map types quite a lot though and you're right, they can be fun.

evilcat - I played on before reading your comments but that was pretty much my thinking as well.

Spoiler :

I got another settler from SP, rush bought two libraries with money from selling my silver, and prioritised the NC. Then I got a scientist from finishing Liberty and settled him near Copenhagen. My science is still way below the rest of the world but slightly more respectable than it was!

Alex declared war on Ram, helpfully tying them both up. They both got religions shortly after I did and are potential runaways so I'm currently thinking of racing for Education, then Steel, hitting Alex with Bezerkers and then taking out Ram afterwards and then either strolling to a wide science victory or steamrollering the rest.

It's good to hear other people's opinions. I tend to win quite a few games on Immortal but I still make a lot of mistakes, particularly at the start. If anyone fancies playing along I'd be interested to compare!

 

[Martin Alvito]

Martin Alvito - thanks for the comments. Given the poor land do you not think a turtle science victory would be pretty difficult? A diplo win against Alex may be a challenge as well - or would you try to take him out along the way? I'm particularly worried that the capital will struggle to get any higher than the teens for population which seems like a big hinderance. I take the point that an isolated start is a benefit to be leveraged but I'm not sure how far it will get me, particularly when Denmark's UUs and UA are so heavily war focused.

In general, Science is the easiest victory with bad dirt. Having Alex in the game would also be a problem for Diplo. On the plus side, you are totally isolated and can pretty much ignore military since none of the AIs are going to ignore their neighbors to sail an invasion fleet up to your doorstep. Yes, that writes off your UU and UA, but you really aren't in a position to go around knocking people over, especially given that you're behind the 8-ball on Science.

As for Masonry - I managed to improve the stone and get a stone works in there before starting on the Lighthouse, and the +3 were pretty helpful. It may be felt that building a lighthouse in a cit ywith no fish is a ... strange decision.

I just don't see it. You're burning the on the tech, 75 and 1/turn to get 3 per turn and one . That's a bad early game investment any way you slice it.

 

[Charlie_B]

Well, I decided to start again and go for the SV out of interest. I failed badly, and just can't see how to make it work. I was friends with everyone the entire game and had loads of £ for RA's, but even trying to prioritise food my cities were only around the late teens for population when I got into the Modern era and the two or three civs that had started to run away were pumping out much more science. Plastics was going to help but I felt like I was simply delaying the inevitable. Finally, Alex declared on me and I gave up.

I went back to my original game and declared on Alex with Beserkers/Galleasses. Pre-Astronomy it was an awkward coastal battle and I had to declare early when he spotted my men at his borders, but despite a very sub-optimal war of attrition I've got three of his cities now and feel like I'm in an OK position to take on Ramesses's massive, juicy cities then consolidate.

 

[Silverfuturist]

I just don't see it. You're burning the on the tech, 75 and 1/turn to get 3 per turn and one . That's a bad early game investment any way you slice it.

The stoneworks is a nice building, what I think Martin Alvito is saying that masonry can wait because there is a more critical tech path you can take first before getting masonry, and there are a few early game builds that give more quick-start benefits than stoneworks.