Which Area Needs most Improvemnt for Civ4?
- Thread starter menwia
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Dwarven Zerker
Just one more turn Honey!
Two people voted other and didn't bother to explain themselves? Sad! 
Of the options I think diplomacy is pretty self explanatory buuuut...
1) Multi-national agreements would be nice.
2) Less concrete trade negotiations. Instead of just plugging numbers to find the highest trade you can get it would be nice to have an "attitude" for the AI that starts with willingness to trade but can end up being insulted and won't deal with you no matter how generous the proposal. This new scale should not be static either. Proposing more than one deal that yields an "I doubt it" would increase the likely hood of your proposal being insulting. Of course you wouldn't get the trade advisor's messages until after you submitted a proposal so you'd always get one freebie. If your second proposal is still insulting I wouldn't expect to be able to make a third offer.
3) AI to AI diplomacy should not be automatically successful. The RNG should be utilized to add variation and realism to AI negotiations.
Of the options I think diplomacy is pretty self explanatory buuuut...
1) Multi-national agreements would be nice.
2) Less concrete trade negotiations. Instead of just plugging numbers to find the highest trade you can get it would be nice to have an "attitude" for the AI that starts with willingness to trade but can end up being insulted and won't deal with you no matter how generous the proposal. This new scale should not be static either. Proposing more than one deal that yields an "I doubt it" would increase the likely hood of your proposal being insulting. Of course you wouldn't get the trade advisor's messages until after you submitted a proposal so you'd always get one freebie. If your second proposal is still insulting I wouldn't expect to be able to make a third offer.
3) AI to AI diplomacy should not be automatically successful. The RNG should be utilized to add variation and realism to AI negotiations.
Dwarven Zerker said:Two people voted other and didn't bother to explain themselves? Sad!
Of the options I think diplomacy is pretty self explanatory buuuut...
1) Multi-national agreements would be nice.
2) Less concrete trade negotiations. Instead of just plugging numbers to find the highest trade you can get it would be nice to have an "attitude" for the AI that starts with willingness to trade but can end up being insulted and won't deal with you no matter how generous the proposal. This new scale should not be static either. Proposing more than one deal that yields an "I doubt it" would increase the likely hood of your proposal being insulting. Of course you wouldn't get the trade advisor's messages until after you submitted a proposal so you'd always get one freebie. If your second proposal is still insulting I wouldn't expect to be able to make a third offer.
3) AI to AI diplomacy should not be automatically successful. The RNG should be utilized to add variation and realism to AI negotiations.
There were some good points there - and in essence I think I agree with mostof them. Knowing if a trade deal will go through or not before you even suggest it seems a bit absurd. I agree - you shouldn't really have that kinda of knowledge - of course the first time its okay, and judging by their response you can tailor your second proposal. I think it should work vice versa as well -when a AI offers you a ridiculous deal - you should be able to also respond in differnt manners - insulted being one of them. Depending on the manner of response- then future proposals and also relations should be effected. I mean - you don't really take kindly to some offering you 100 dollars for your car which is worth 10,000 - the next time that person wants to meet up with you for negotiations you'd probably not go - hell, you wouldn't even take his call -that way - the next time you or some one else tries to make a trade proposal who has been insulted - they can refuse to recieve the audiance - if you know what i mean.
But yeah, diplomacy is the big issue for me - alot of things can be improved - but I feel the greatest area or need for imporvement is diplomacy.
the way I look at it - what' the point of adding new features to a game if you havn't sorted out the ones you already got. That's goes for everything expect multiplayer - we need that feature - no matter how messed up the other things are.
We all know, that we can't have everything - that's why we got to concentrate on the one thing that we think needs the more urgent work. Although I'd like to see loads of improvments- being realistic - Diplomacy in my view needs our immediate attention.
Dwarven Zerker
Just one more turn Honey!
These proprosals for improved diplomacy are new features. They are new options to a current game mechanic not currently featured - thus new feature. 
I agree with the human response. There should be multiple responses available like: "Forget it and get out!" or "I don't think so, try again." When the AI makes an offer it should have a range in which it will offer. Anything outside that range won't be offered at all. The AI's initial offer can be randomly selected somewhere within this range to begin the negotiations which will force the player to decide how risky they want to be. This works in reverse as well. The AI will accept an offer from the player (or other AI)within it's acceptable range.
If the computer or player get too insulted they can decide how long they won't even accept a trade envoy from that civ (similar to the military envoy asking for peace.) I played an old RPG game (text based GUI) where you could haggle over the cost of items you bought and sold to various shops. Based on the response from the shopkeeper you could tailor your next bid. Too many insulting offers would result in the shop closing for a pre-determined amount of time. Sometimes it was quite a while before I could buy or sell in that shop. It doesn't seem to be a hard mechanic to work out and should only take a couple of days for coding it.
I agree with the human response. There should be multiple responses available like: "Forget it and get out!" or "I don't think so, try again." When the AI makes an offer it should have a range in which it will offer. Anything outside that range won't be offered at all. The AI's initial offer can be randomly selected somewhere within this range to begin the negotiations which will force the player to decide how risky they want to be. This works in reverse as well. The AI will accept an offer from the player (or other AI)within it's acceptable range.
If the computer or player get too insulted they can decide how long they won't even accept a trade envoy from that civ (similar to the military envoy asking for peace.) I played an old RPG game (text based GUI) where you could haggle over the cost of items you bought and sold to various shops. Based on the response from the shopkeeper you could tailor your next bid. Too many insulting offers would result in the shop closing for a pre-determined amount of time. Sometimes it was quite a while before I could buy or sell in that shop. It doesn't seem to be a hard mechanic to work out and should only take a couple of days for coding it.
Zarn
Le Républicain Catholique
I believe the governments need the most work.
Listing several govs and having only two 'free' doesn't really cut it. I believe it should be similar to SMAC's system.
Listing several govs and having only two 'free' doesn't really cut it. I believe it should be similar to SMAC's system.
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
Now, for the record-I SAID economy, but I feel that diplomacy and Economy need an equal amount of improvement in the upcoming game! The reason I went for Economy, though, was because I felt that at least diplomacy HAD been improved between civ2 and civ3, wheras the economy model is pretty much identical to where it was in civ1 and civ2!
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
citizen001
Banned
No one mentioned civilopedia, it would be better to have unit animations to see how the units attack and more potential space to fit the hyperlinks. also they could make it so creators can design their own civilopedia layout.
citizen001 said:
It would be nice to have that - but in my view not essential - new disrespect intended here - it';s something like have a strawberry topping on your cake. This is just a game play view here - if I was looking at it from a creation view or mod view then it might make a whole lot of difference.
Its something i'm interested in - creating and mods and stuff - unfortuantly just don't have the technical know how - got the juice but not the spark. That's a messed up little phrase there -not sure what it even means myself. Oh well . .. but yeah, like I said earlier it would be something nice - but I personally think developing the diplomacy is much more critical - also spies and economy need improving. There's so much - and to an extent - economy and diplomacy overlap in certain areas.
About the air unit thing - it just don't do for it me. I maybe the exeption but I just don't find using fighters or bombers in the present form any fun. They can't even destroy a unit - i think a bomber should be able to destroy a unit as well as other things. If a bombing squad flies over a infantry unit or mobile armoured unit in the real world - belive me - it can sometimes wipe them out. Also ground units shoud be able to defend themselves against air attack. Depending on the difference in the unit so to should its capacity to defend against air attack. If that gets done in Civ4 then I might be more inclined to build air units and not just have them just incase I need them or to stop air attacks. But to be honest - they don't play much role in my game play. If I need to take out air units of an enemy civ - just roll into that city and destroy them all. Overwhemlming ground forces - that's the key, with a touch backup of air units. A decent navy is important - just to keep the annoying bombardments and annoying landings that the AI does.
I got more to say but i'm pretty sure you guys have already read enough of my writings for the day anyway's - apart from that, i'm tired from all this typing. Too much Civ play has made my typing muscles weak . . .
Definatley diplomacy, there is so much more scope to be had. Perhaps you want to do deals to seal a diplomacy win. Perhaps you want to trade troops, boats. Or have a trade that alows an alliance so that two civs could win togeather. Or maybe a trade that some how allows their troops to board your seas vessels (only useful in Multi-dude games)
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