Which Civ for fastest route to Great Library?

[Tomoyo]

It's absolutely gamebreaking in AW, though...

 

[SJ Frank]

It's absolutely gamebreaking in AW, though...

... though not quite as badly in Conquest, since you do have to hand-build it...

 

[citizen001]

when it comes to the GL do yourself a favor, dont build it.

That's an over generalisation. True it's useless if you trade well, but when the AI researches techs in half the time you do it becomes helpful.

 

[DBear]

GLib is most helpful if you're stuck on a remote island and have no early contacts. Otherwise you're better off building military.

 

[Rohili]

It is not at all overpowered. It is absolutely useless below deity if you know how to trade. And while you rely on the GL, you don't learn how to trade.

It is great when you can build it for the precise purpose that you don't have to give the AI anything to get their techs. This way you can maintain your lead scientifically and financially.

 

[rysingsun]

yes. if you dont have to pay for techs then all that money can go toward rush-completion of marketplaces/libraries/aqueducts. its certainly worthwhile on any level.

then again i dont believe ive ever built the great library before. what's it like?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

When i trade with the AI, i normally end up with ALL available techs and ALL the worlds money.
I don't need to research myself for that (although i usually do anyway)

Isn't that the same as TGL provides you?
The only difference is that you don't pass on techs from one civ to the other. If this is a difference at all (meaning they dont trade them themselves without you being in between) this just lowers the tech pace. Unless it is sid, i don't prefer to slow down the tech pace.

 

[Rohili]

When i trade with the AI, i normally end up with ALL available techs and ALL the worlds money.
I don't need to research myself for that (although i usually do anyway)

Isn't that the same as TGL provides you?
The only difference is that you don't pass on techs from one civ to the other. If this is a difference at all (meaning they dont trade them themselves without you being in between) this just lowers the tech pace. Unless it is sid, i don't prefer to slow down the tech pace.

But first you have to have something the AI is willing to trade for. What if all the AI are far ahead of you in tech (very prevalent on higher levels)? You'll have to resort to paying gold, and that hurts your pocket while giving the AI an unwanted boost. Worse still, if you have not enough gold, resources or techs to trade with, you are left in the dust.

 

[bonscott]

Once again, the point isn't that the GL isn't useful. It certainly can be and is. The point is that on higher levels you'll rarely be able to build it. So if you want to play on higher levels you need to learn to live without it. And the only way to learn to live without it is to purposely not build it on lower levels.

If you don't want to move up or learn to live without there is nothing wrong with that, you will just get frustrated every game and probably quit because you won't know how to play without it. I used to be that way too. If I didn't get the GL I quit. But there isn't much fun in that so I learned to live without.

 

[majk-iii]

Well, i've heard alotta u guys explaining why one shouldn't build the great library... and i see your point(s) ...still i allways tend to build it when possible, while gaining contacts, i get to decide on the techpace while rushing improvements and do some late aa-expanding with the tech-slider on zero. I of course keep selling cheap techs to the ai to boost the pace... i however do this in a refined, strategic manner, to be able to maximise my gains.
If GLib is to much of a hustle to build however... i can do just fine without it.
Even if my capital looks good on the city top ten with that extra, early 6 culture/turn.

 

[Tomoyo]

But first you have to have something the AI is willing to trade for. What if all the AI are far ahead of you in tech (very prevalent on higher levels)? You'll have to resort to paying gold, and that hurts your pocket while giving the AI an unwanted boost. Worse still, if you have not enough gold, resources or techs to trade with, you are left in the dust.

The AI will pay a lot for other techs... there will almost always be a weak AI trading partner. Use that AI to get to parity, then pull n-fers to get the lead.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

The Great Library equals 13 Swordsman/Horses. Or 20 Archers. Simply ask yourself if those couldn't achieve more than the wonder.
On any non-archipelago map below Deity the answer should be 'Yes'. And on island maps, the AI can be easily out-researched/out-traded, so here TGLib is almost useless anyway.
Still, I'm not fanatically against that wonder, if you use it like any other wonder. The problem is the 'Hit or Quit' attitude many players develop from being addicted to it.

 

[xiaoafei]

if using the second city to build the Glib, I believe it doesn't matter what techs you start with. because 600 shields means a lot of turns, in which you must have got the tech to build it. when you don't have the tech, just build palace instead, so that you can store up to 399 shields. So, the speed you buid the Glib really only depends on your production rate. I prefer those civs with higher worker effeciency. Obviously this will accelarate the speed of everything.

 

[Rohili]

The problem is the 'Hit or Quit' attitude many players develop from being addicted to it.

That is definitely overboard, I agree. Those players will need to relearn their priorities. What I was against is a blanket ban on the GL. IMO, if it helps, use it.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

But first you have to have something the AI is willing to trade for. What if all the AI are far ahead of you in tech (very prevalent on higher levels)? You'll have to resort to paying gold, and that hurts your pocket while giving the AI an unwanted boost. Worse still, if you have not enough gold, resources or techs to trade with, you are left in the dust.

You might not have those trading skills:

There is only 1 difficulty level where i do not keep up with the AI. That is Sid.

And paying gold hurting your pockets, boosting AI:
Buy tech A from civ1. Trade it to civ 4 for tech B. Trade tech A+B for tech C from civ8. Sell Tech B+C to civ A to get back the money you payed. Now sell all techs to anyone who doesn't have them to get all the money around.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

if using the second city to build the Glib, I believe it doesn't matter what techs you start with. because 600 shields means a lot of turns, in which you must have got the tech to build it. when you don't have the tech, just build palace instead, so that you can store up to 399 shields. So, the speed you buid the Glib really only depends on your production rate. I prefer those civs with higher worker effeciency. Obviously this will accelarate the speed of everything.

Thats what its about, the ability to build the palace.

 

[Rohili]

The Great Library equals 13 Swordsman/Horses. Or 20 Archers. Simply ask yourself if those couldn't achieve more than the wonder.

1) You will need to pay upkeep for so many military units.
2) You'll need to declare war with the AI; an unfavourable choice for peaceful builders.
3) You miss out the powerful early culture from the GL, especially useful if you are shooting for a cultural victory.
4) The Great Library allows you to go without research for a period of time, saving you lots of gold.
5) If you do choose to continue research, you can research the techs which the AI hasn't started researching yet, then sell it to them. If you don't at least you maintain a tech lead over them, and your units will be more advanced, plus you will have first access to all those wonders.

 

[Rohili]

You might not have those trading skills:

There is only 1 difficulty level where i do not keep up with the AI. That is Sid.

And paying gold hurting your pockets, boosting AI:
Buy tech A from civ1. Trade it to civ 4 for tech B. Trade tech A+B for tech C from civ8. Sell Tech B+C to civ A to get back the money you payed. Now sell all techs to anyone who doesn't have them to get all the money around.

It looks easy on paper, but in reality it is dependant on many variables:

1) Civ A may have all the techs Civ B, C and you have by the time you meet him.
2) Civ B and C may not have techs to trade with you.
3) Civ A may not have gold for you.
4) You may not have enough gold to buy techs from Civ A.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Really it works like that.

 

[Tomoyo]

1) You will need to pay upkeep for so many military units.
2) You'll need to declare war with the AI; an unfavourable choice for peaceful builders.
3) You miss out the powerful early culture from the GL, especially useful if you are shooting for a cultural victory.
4) The Great Library allows you to go without research for a period of time, saving you lots of gold.
5) If you do choose to continue research, you can research the techs which the AI hasn't started researching yet, then sell it to them. If you don't at least you maintain a tech lead over them, and your units will be more advanced, plus you will have first access to all those wonders.

1) No, the civ I'm putting the on pays for them.
2) I can change into a warmongerer...
3) Who cares, seriously?
4) But what if one AI runs away from the pack?
5) Does not relate to the GL.