Which FF do I want?

[killerbacon]

I read the info page about them, but I can't make heads or tails as to why one would be better than another. It seems that the 25% better defense one and the 20% cheaper goods in Europe one would be nice. Knowing what order they come in, is there a skip/get grade on each one? Also, if you get one with exploration points, are your other points still intact, or does it set all points back to zero?

 

[Thundercracker]

Founding Fathers come in 5 flavors, with 5 matching flavors of points you can get. Whenever you explore the map, you gain exploration points, trading stuff gets you trading points, having cities and making liberty bells gets you political points, etc. Each founding father requires a certain amount of political points and whatever their native type is. (Peter Minuit is trading FF, so he also requires trade points.)

Whenever you collect enough points to get a founding father, he's offered to you. If you accept him, those points are deducted. If you decline, your points remain and you never can get him again. As you go up to higher numbers of points in each area, more FF are available.

The best FF far and away is Peter Minuit (Units cost 25% less to purchase in Europe). Obscenely, ridiculously so. Specialists are the key to the game's economy, and he gives them to you more quickly and cheaper. A core part of my opening is getting him. I trade to make sure I have enough points there and produce political points in my city(s) to get him ASAP, skipping all FFs before him, just to make sure I'm the one who gets him.

After him, the rest vary in quality from ok to useless, partly depending on your strategy. Vaco Nunez de Balboa (+25% defense per settlement) is decent, but the REF gets such large bonuses in city attack, its bad to defend in cities even with bonuses. You're better off fighting in the forests and mountains, both attack and defense, which makes Ethan Allen probably one of the most useful. Balboa's is really most useful in protecting you during the indian's sneak attacks.

Beyond that, its a matter of taste. Some are good for the LB spam period, particularly John Jay, Sam Adams, and Ben Franklin, and to an extent anyone who boosts LB production. Dom Pedro makes all your army like veteran soldiers, which is solid.

Thomas Paine helps with late military production, La Fayette and Madison help you pump out guns, Bermudez's faster ships are occasionally useful. Cabrel's shortened travel time to Europe is nice, but I always skip him since he's before Minuit.

 

[Refar]

Usually the AI will beat me to most of them. They tend to ramp up the LB production a lot earlier than i do. And being unwilling to build gallows in all my cities all the time, i am not really in the position to counteract.

So i target only the ones i really want. Most of the time it's just Peter Menuit.

There are others who are nice, but no one seem to have such a big impact - I.e. because he's cheap too, so you can get him very early from building Gallows (and thus without inflating the REF).


Honorable mentions (who i am allways happy to get, if i can, but rarely targent specifically):
All military guys giving free promotions. (They are often available untill quite late too, because the AI does not really get a lot of military points...)
Las Casas + Hooker (Faster converting + 3 Missionaries). Good synergy. Tho the AI seem to like them as well.
All the Late ones giving +[Something] to certain Buildings/ %Bonus from Tax Rate / % Production - Getting free stuff is allways nice. But not crucial so i wont step out of my way to get them.

Useless ones from where is stand are the ones who give free unit (i.e. the free Caravel one ), reduce land buy price, improve relations...

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

Yes,they tend to build the cheap ones, you have to choose which area you focus on.
If you focus on the city hall building, you can have cities producing LB,Cr & Hm from scratch with no crew.

 

[historix69]

I miss an FF like historical person George Washington which should give a "Great General"-Unit for preparation of WoI ...

 

[Refar]

Would be odd if Washington appeared in the game twice, wouldn't it ?

But yea a FF who is/grant a Great General sounds nice.

 

[Desert-Fox]

+25% Defence Father is useless. If you do not garrison your soldiers into cities then what good it else does? Dragoons and Cannons have no def. bonuses. Later the +1 food guy is nice, sometimes I can take more farmers away and convert them dragoons.

 

[Lord Chambers]

The only useful ones are Peter Minuit, who you can always get first, even on Revolutionary when you don't decide to rape the other Europeans, the military father who gives Ranger I and Mountaineer I bonus to your soldiers, and the political one that boosts liberty bell production by 25%. All the rest are relatively unhelpful red herrings which will keep you from these three who may impact your game.

All the ones which enhance resource production are nice, but because time is money, do nothing but speed up the date on which you declare war. That's cool for points, but from the perspective of winning the game, 25% bonus to liberty bells and 20% to forests and mountains are more likely to ensure you win.

Peter Minuit is just a no brainer. The FF tree needs to be balanced for gameplay, not neccesarily chronology.

 

[maverique]

A stupid question, if I may. If I pass down, which I just did, some FFs to get later ones, which I did, can you still get the early ones after you got the late ones? Cos I saved points to get D. Pedro and now I can't seem to get any more FFs.

 

[Refar]

No, you can't go back. If you told a FF to go away he got mad at you and can not be had again.

 

[Darkness]

The FF tree needs to be balanced for gameplay, not neccesarily chronology.

Very true.
Jacques Marquette (+1 movement for Scouts) is completely useless now. Who needs +1 movement for scouts in the late game? Now if he came very early, then there'd be a good reason to get him. Now he's just a waste of space...

 

[killerbacon]

thanks for the answers. My second question didnt get answered exactly. If you pick a FF on explorations track, I know it clears those points... Does it also clear the other track points, or just the one he was on? If only the one he was on, it seems that there are a few tracks without a "MustHave" FF. So, in each track (Besides Minuit who is a nobrainer) which one should be taken if offered?

 

[Refar]

It substracts the cost of the FF from your accumulated pools.
Taking a Exploration FF will use up Points from Exploration and Politics (everyone uses politics) but leave alone Points in Trade, Religion & Military.

 

[Desert-Fox]

The city ruins/treasure/artifacts fathers are also useless, they come when all the land is already explored.

 

[Supr49er]

Welcome to the Forums killerbacon.

 

[dalgo]

I like the FF system and chase them aggressively. In my present game I have 29 Founding Fathers so far. These are the FF I try to get:

Exploration - all the speed improvements
Pedro Cabral (quicker travel to Europe)
Juan de Bermudez (+1 movement for trading ships)
Jacques Marquette (+1 movement for scouts, very handy for getting colonists to indian villages for training, and back again)
Lewis & Clarke (+1 movement for wagon trains)

Religion - none of the early ones stand out but I'll take either
Bartolome de las Casas (+50% native Conversion Rate), or
Thomas Hooker (provides 3 Jesuit Missionaries). Then I like
William Penn (+3 crosses per town Hall and better relations with natives)
Gregorio de Mattos e Guerre (more liberty bells)
Nathaniel Hawthorne (provides 3 Elder Statesmen)

Trade - I go out of my way to start trading early so I can be sure to get
Peter Minuit (cheaper units from Europe). After him I'll take
Jan de Witt (50% less tools required for buildings)
Alexander Hamilton (+3 production per Town Hall)
Eli Whitney (+50% cotton) - if needed
John Jacob Astor (+50% furs) - if needed

Military - no one great early so I'll start with
Diego Velazquez de Cuyellar (3 indentured servants). Then I want
Francisco de Coronado (+1 movement per dragoon, very important in the WOI)
Ethan Allen (Ranger and Mountaineer promotions)
Paul Chomedey de Maissonneuve (Formation promotion)
Dom Pedro I (more GG's and Veteran promotion) a 'must have'

Political - any that add extra bells eg
Ben Franklin, Samuel Adams and Patrick Henry, then
Thomas Paine (increase production by tax rate)
and perhaps Betsy Ross (more cloth)

These Founding Fathers suit my type of game, other players will have different priorities.

 

[Refar]

Cabral is good. Unfortunately he will be allways offered before Menuit, so i allways have to refuse him.

Why Casas OR Hooker - i like AND a lot

 

[dalgo]

Cabral is good. Unfortunately he will be allways offered before Menuit, so i allways have to refuse him.
Why Casas OR Hooker - i like AND a lot

Yeah I guess Casas and Hooker do go together well.

As for Cabral, combining him with de Bermudez means that my Merchantmen are in Europe the turn after they leave port (using a huge custom map) and back home again one turn later, which is a big advantage. Galleons can't do that so I usually only buy one (for treasure) and do all my trading with Merchantmen.

It does put Minuit at risk as you say. I just trade like mad and cross my fingers. So far I've been lucky.

 

[Supr49er]

Welcome to the Forums maverique.

 

[killerbacon]

Welcome to the Forums killerbacon.

Thanks... glad to be here.