Which SSC Site?

[mordhiem]

Well, we now have three possible sites for consideration, all will make excellent cities, but which one will we pump up into our mega SSC? Just a quick recap...

Regia Civatis

Current knowledge of Specials: Two whales, one grassland-covered special, one unrevealed sea special

Trade Arrows (from specials only, not roaded)

Max of 12 arrows (unrevealed sea special is whale and grassland special is mined into a forest which is a silk)
Guarenteed 6 arrows

Min Time to Settle: It's built now

It's built now, so no waiting around to start Colosuss. It is our capital so free from corruption.

North-West Site

Current Knowledge of Specials: One silk, one whale, one gem, one unrevealed land special

Trade Arrows (from specials only, not roaded)

Max of 16 arrows (uncovered land is gold)
Guarenteed 10 arrows

Min Time to Settle: 20 Turns (Regia Civatis starts building Settler now)

This site looks very, very promising. Of course the fact that it will be difficult at best to relocate the capital anytime soon means corruption plays a factor.

South-East Site

Current Knowledge of Specials: two whales, one grassland-covered land special, one unrevealed sea special

Trade Arrows (specials only, not roaded):

Max of 12 arrows (unrevealed sea special is whale and grassland special is mined into a forest which is a silk)
Guarenteed 6 arrows

Min Time to Settle: 20 Turns (Regia Civatis starts building Settler now)

This has exactly the same special setup as our current capital. Infact, it's practically the same as far as we can tell at the moment. However once we start uncovering those specials it may be better or worse off.

Remember that the currently underdeveloped sites will lose arrows due to corruption because of their distance from our palace. Can someone who has information on how corruption works calculate exactly how much? I have looked on this site and at 'poly and cant find any info RE corruption dynamics.

 

[mordhiem]

I would highly recommend no-one vote for the 'we need to wait' option on the poll. This is one decision that we would have to wait a long time in order to get more info on (if the sea specials are whales or fish and if the grasslands are type one or type two specials) and the sooner we commit, the better.

 

[starlifter]

I voted for delay. The game will tell us if we can do it, based on AI competition. The Game Player must note and report the year any AI starts a wonder, so we can gauge.

That is a nice detailed post, Mordheim!


I posted some stuff on Gem City in the BC3550 Hut thread, including some detailed numbers of corruption. Now that we know more about the land and lack of AI, we need to switch TFalls to a Settler, bring the horse back to TFalls for Happiness on the 7th day, and plan on starting the Gems City right away. Gems City would probably start the Colossus immediately, and we would then IPRB a 2nd TFalls settler to 20 shields with our gold, then road the 2nd tile north of TFalls, and found city#4. Both TFalls and #4 would spew units and Settlers to support RC and Gems City. And at some point, we will know (e.g., have to decide) if we take Colossus at RC, or can pass and let Colossus finish at Gems City. With luck, we will get at least Pyramids, Colossus, HG and maybe even Marco Polo before the AI can build a single wonder (jumping way ahead)!

In Despotism, shield #3 will be lost to waste in Gems City. There will also be high corruption until Monarchy.

two whales, one grassland-covered land special, one unrevealed sea special
...
Max of 12 arrows (unrevealed sea special is whale and grassland special is mined into a forest which is a silk)

Based on the pattern, and the Gems (a fish terrain), I have a sinking feeling that we have a 2-2 specials pattern (2 fish, 2 whales). If so, then RC and the south 4-sp city will each have a pheasant, 2 whales, and a fish. This is good for pre-Republic growth and shield output, but not quite as good for mid game trade, compared to what we see in Gems City. So don't count on a Silk just yet... next turn should gell the tale, unless the 4th Gems City special is a grassland.

This has exactly the same special setup as our current capital. Infact, it's practically the same as far as we can tell at the moment. However once we start uncovering those specials it may be better or worse off.

I think you are right.. the net result will be identical to RC, whatever the final pattern is.

Can someone who has information on how corruption works calculate exactly how much? I have looked on this site and at 'poly and cant find any info RE corruption dynamics.

Yes, but it needs to be dug up. I know I have some general info in this link:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...8&highlight=corruption+AND+waste+AND+capital*

I may have posted some stuff somewhere here in this link, but don't have time to read thru to find it:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...6&highlight=corruption+AND+waste+AND+capital*

If not, we'll have to post about it later in a separate thread. The "book answer" is in fact wrong (nothing new with that ).

 

[Octavian X]

This would be an approitiate time to ask... What the heck is an SSC?

EDIT: Nevermind. Just found out. I recommend placing the SSC in the capital, mainly for the reduces corruption.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

The main factor in deciding the SSC is somewhat mute. The actual underlying questions would be; do we switch the warrior productin in RC to a settler? or the warrior in TF to a settler?

With rush buying, RC can get the city built in about 16 turns, while TF will take about 18.

So, do we want our possible new SSC two turns earlier? If so, that will delay the duplicate wonder building at RC.

So, that needs to be decided before the next round of turns.

 

[Serutan]

I think we should use TF to build the settler, and let
RC start on the dup wonder, just to be safe.

 

[heliogabalus]

As Starlifter pointed out and we all know by the setup of RC, it will be a really powerful wonder builder. Therefore we should not weaken it by building settlers and instead use the TF settler to fund the Gem city. Further settler spawning should be done by TF as well.

What I don't quite understand yet is why the "filler city" (turquoise circle between RC and TF) http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=433737#post433737 should be at just this place. And is it meant to be disbanded later or to remain a cosy hamlet forever?

 

[Zwelgje]

I think it is placed there to not interfere with the city-rdius of any other city except TF and RC (just look: it's exactly 4 squares from both other city sites indicated). It is being kept small (this will occur naturally as it will continuously be producing settlers, and also caravans in between).
The purpose of a filler city is to make optimal use of the land after choosing the best sites for the major cities. TF and RC are placed in such a way that they can become very big cities with lots of trade and knowledge, the land in between is too nice to be left untouched. The site is actually quite nice for a small city with lots of settler-production potential: it's got grassland (lots of food), it's got plains (food and production) and forrest (production). The convience of this city also lies in the fact that it's close to the capital so less happiness-problems will occur even without too many improvements.

Maybe I missed some important points but I'm sure other people will give some extra explanation when needed.

 

[heliogabalus]

Thanks. I am enlightened now, at least on this matter ;-)

 

[ainwood]

Well, it appears to be fairly clear that what ever we do, we will have three fairly good trade cities, so I presume that as the game develops we will try and convert all of these into science cities (research and trade bonus improvements, plus good trade routes with caravans. To me, I see zero advantage in the SE site, as this is just RC plus some corruption. Given that it is "south" on a world scale, trade bonuses for caravans may be marginally higher, but I doubt that this will offset the corruption.

The only thing to consider is the delay we will incur in starting the Colossus - and the chance that we will lose it - and the corruption if we don't build in RC.

Playing "the odds", it appears that the NW site will generate more trade. It is still relatively close to RC (corruption-wise), although a road will be a priority (for trade and defense).

IMO, losing the Colossus would be the biggest worry. The whales and forest at the NW site (and three grassland shields) should mean that we can still grow and produce at a reasonable rate.

I suggest that we go for the NW location (gems city), although change to RC if someone else starts the Colossus (unless they are in easy striking range of our legions! )

 

[heliogabalus]

I think we are starting a wonder in RC anyway after the Phalanx. If any situation threatening the loss of the Colossus in the NW site should arise, we can simply switch to Col in RC.

 

[duke o' york]

Originally posted by mordheim:
South-East Site

Current Knowledge of Specials: two whales, one grassland-covered land special, one unrevealed sea special

Trade Arrows (specials only, not roaded):

Max of 12 arrows (unrevealed sea special is whale and grassland special is mined into a forest which is a silk)
Guarenteed 6 arrows

In fact we're guaranteed 8 arrows - 3 from each whale and then either 2 or 3 from the sea special, depending upon whether it is a whale (9 arrows!) or a fish (8 arrows).

Great job with the summary though - I say that the NW site is the best and that we ought to put the SSC there, but still be in a position to have the Colossus in RC if we are forced to by the AI. Both are good cities with lots of potential for SSC.

 

[Zwelgje]

We should start colossus in RC and also in the NW city.
Whenever it is clear other civs will not be able to finish colossus sooner than we will in the NW city, we can switch the colossus in RC to another wonder.
Building like this we will be sure not to miss out on the colossus and on top of that we have the decision in which city we will have it.

 

[starlifter]

Byt starting 2 wonders, we will be guaranteed Colossus and either Pyramids or Hanging Gardens, both of which are excellent. If things go really well, we might have a choice in the latter 2. It would be too much to hope that, at Deity, we could actually snag all 3, right ?!

 

[Zwelgje]

Right starlifter.
3 of the early wonders at deity.... I didn't even get one wonder during an entire game at deity!

 

[duke o' york]

All that beautiful river is too far away for another SSC option, but we need to get a city there as soon as possible so that we can begin to reap the benefits of a huge trade empire! This start almost seems too good to be true!

 

[starlifter]

And the way the land curls around will keep corruption low! Plus, we will own the inland sea to the west of RC. Any landborne invader will need to run the gauntlet of the western strip to get to us. The Gems City still looks like a good SSC site at this point.

Ultimately, we may have to decide on the choice of sites (if the game allows us that luxury). The Gems city will be 10+7+(8+about 10)= about 35 turns behind RC in making a wonder. Which can translate to the loss of trade of about 4 arrows per turn from the outset. Also, RC could immediately turn to making a 2nd wonder after RBing a Temple. This 2nd wonder could be Hanging Gardens, and the city will be almost size 4 by then, and make 7 shields per day at size 4, which would be only 29 days.

Well, it's still a long time off to have to decide for sure, and the game tell us a lot more by then. The Gems City would be a superior site if we can get the Colossus there quick .

 

[duke o' york]

If we can rush to Trade and start IPRBing some caravans if necessary then I don't think we'll have much to fear from the AI, but it depends how long the discovery takes us. We do need to be first to Philosophy though.

 

[Leowind]

It sounds to me like our choice basically comes down to Colossus sooner, or in a *potentially* better city (Gems city), but later, with a small amount of corruption. I think persue both as long as feasible to make our final decision with as much info as possible, but I would just as soon go ahead with RC as our SSC to not lose the 35 turns of having the Colossus. Given our trade-rich starting location, it may not make that big a difference which city we choose as our SSC as all are good candidates and all the others will still produce great amounts of trade.