Which Unique Unit is the Most OP

[MarigoldRan]

I vote "Waka Raka."

 

[Victoria]

You get the toa earlier
It is upgraded from a warrior for 130 gold and no iron and will likely already have 1-2 promotions.
It has No maintenance
Anything adjacent to it, fights anything at -5 (including ranged and any naval units when embarked) This -5 is stackable to all 6 hexes for a max of -30
It can use the Oligarchy +4
It has a base strength of 40 (5 more than a swordsman so another sword fights it at -10)
It has a first level promotion that gives it +10 vs ranged
It has a second level promotion that gives it +1 movement.
It can build a Pa
It can repair pillaged tiles
It can move 2 tiles faster at sea

The Warak’aq
Has 3 MP
20 melee strength
40 Ranged Strength (range 1)
Ranger promotions for faster movement
Second level promotion to move after attacking
Third level promotion +20 combat strength

So if an unpromoted Warak’aq attack’s an unpromoted Toa it will do one attack at -5 amd one at -3 which will do 60 damage on average.
The Toa then retaliates at 34 vs 20 doing 52 damage

If the opposite happens the Toa is +20 doing 66 damage
The Warak’aq then hits twice at -11 which does 38

A problem is the Toa comes earlier so is promoted to have an addition +10 meaning if attacked first which is only 33 damage and giving 59.

The real problem is a single archer will do 36 damage in the open to it.... a crossbow (which will be around by then) will do 66.

The skirmisher comes later and you will have issues in promotions, it’s fiddly, a very good and powerful unit but nowhere near as flexible, hardy and easy to use as a Toa.

I have played both now, the speed of the Waraq’aq Is good but you depend on first strike and rough terrain with them. They are sadly best as a defensive thing and can cause a stand off with the right bottleneck but the opposite is very unlikely.

Legions are at least -5 vs toa, cost 2 maintenance and apparently now need iron.

But there are other UU’s out there that can correctly be argued as better than both @MarigoldRan , just try and be critical about what you are suggesting before you post to try and get a more balanced view.

The Hwacha is nothing like a Warak’aq. Range2, and 45/60 strength and uses the better ranged promotions.

 

[MarigoldRan]

But the Toa is worse at attacking cities then the Waraqaq and obsoletes after Medieval whereas the Waraqaq is relevant into the industrial. Agreed that Toa comes earlier, but Waraqaq has much more relevance for attacking cities later on and it's only 1 tech later on the tech tree. The Toa -5 bonus does not apply to city defenses, which is going to be the primary target.

It's easy to get the upgrades for the Waraqaq (use the recon card and attack a city- 14 exp / turn) and once it's level 3, it's better at annihilating city defenses without taking damage than anything else in this game. Two Waraqaqs can annihilate medieval city defenses in only 2 turns.

Waraqaq blitzes better than the Toa since if you do it right, you'll barely take any damage whereas Toa are guaranteed to take damage from attacking cities.

 

[Victoria]

But the Toa is worse at attacking cities

You are not thinking things through in the slightest.
A toa would attack a city with a Ram.
You seem to have zero idea how anything but ranged works. Do you even know the mechanics behind the damage you deal to a city as opposed to a toa? No ZOC, more war weariness and just so weak versus a city with an Xbox in it. You will lose one each turn.

You did the same with Pitati, when many people disagree with you you have to consider if you should be a little more balanced?

 

[MarigoldRan]

Wall defenses are taken down in a single turn with 3 Waraqaqs, meaning that the Xbow only takes one shot, which isn't enough to kill one of them. Pull back the damaged Waraqaq and its fine. Waraqaqs will ALWAYS get first strike due to their mobility.

In contrast, the Toas will get hit by the city defenses and the XBow as they walk up to the city and once they hit the city, they take more damage. It takes 4-5 turns for Toas to take a city with walls (they have to maneuver around it first, slowly).

3 Waraqaqs take down a medieval city with walls in 2 turns, without suffering retaliation. That's faster than anything else in the game. Toas might do twice as much damage per hit against city defenses, but Waraqaqs shoot twice and don't suffer retaliation and maneuver much much faster.

 

[MarigoldRan]

The Waraqaqs are better at wiping city defenses then knights, because they don't have to wait for the battering ram. They do equivalent damage thanks to double shot and once they're promoted to level 3, each Waraqaq does the damage of two knights (to city defenses) and the damage of 3 knights to everything else, without retaliation.

With the Toa, you'll have to eventually transition out of it. The Waraqaq is a unit that you NEVER transition from, as it's effective all the way into the industrial era.

Unlike Toas, Waraqaqs wipe out Renaissance defenses without any trouble at all.

There is NOTHING in the game better at taking cities pre-industrial than a swarm of Waraqaqs.

 

[Victoria]

Toas might do twice as much damage per hit against city defenses, but Waraqaqs shoot twice and don't suffer retaliation and maneuver much much faster.

Waraq’aqs Attack walls at 40, Toas at 44. You do half damage and twice as many hits therefore the Toas have +4 more damage.
Toas are +1 movement by then so ... are the same speed... also have a great general like I would expect you to have.
So there is nothing in taking a city apart from some damage the Toas take.
The toas have ZOC, less war weariness, +4 damage amd do not rely on another unit to enter the city but take more damage. Your argument is false.

I have 0 idea what you mean by transition. Are you talking about your +20 third level promotion?
That makes your unit 45/40 while a toa is 40/40 but gets the Oligarchy legacy card so is in fact 44/40.
A Toa will now have double attacks, be an additional +10 against district from a level 3 promotion
By the time the Skirmisher arrives the Toa has already won the game... so realistically the best things are earlier like the donkey cart and potato archers.

You really do not think and just spout out what you want without correct thinking and refuse the truth of the matter.

 

[Tech Osen]

The defense rating of a city is also affected by the strenght of the unit inside so that will suffer from 4-5 Toas near it. Also that crossbowman inside the city will do very little damage because of those Toas around it, especially with the defensive promotion vs ranged. I haven't played the Incas, I'm sure it's a great unit but the Toas are absolutely devastating early on.

 

[Krajzen]

Khevsur

 

[Victoria]

I haven't played the Incas

I have, you whizz through the rainforest and then you hit something on your last move and die. So reload because that fast rainforest unit was your most promoted.
Playing against the AI is immaterial, whether against Inca or Zulu I would rush crossbow and chop trees. Ranged are great defensive troops, melee are great attacking troops, cavalry like the knight UU’s are stronger

 

[MarigoldRan]

Waraq’aqs Attack walls at 40, Toas at 44. You do half damage and twice as many hits therefore the Toas have +4 more damage.
Toas are +1 movement by then so ... are the same speed... also have a great general like I would expect you to have.
So there is nothing in taking a city apart from some damage the Toas take.
The toas have ZOC, less war weariness, +4 damage amd do not rely on another unit to enter the city but take more damage. Your argument is false.

I have 0 idea what you mean by transition. Are you talking about your +20 third level promotion?
That makes your unit 45/40 while a toa is 40/40 but gets the Oligarchy legacy card so is in fact 44/40.
A Toa will now have double attacks, be an additional +10 against district from a level 3 promotion
By the time the Skirmisher arrives the Toa has already won the game... so realistically the best things are earlier like the donkey cart and potato archers.

You really do not think and just spout out what you want without correct thinking and refuse the truth of the matter.

Not at all and can you cut down on the insults? Your snobbishness is showing. Stick to the argument or go away.

Waraqaqs level up FOUR TIMES FASTER than any other unit out there meaning that they'll get to level 3 by the time most Toas would be level 1. They attack twice and get the +100% experience card, netting them 14 (!!!) experience per turn. In contrast, the most the Toa will ever get is 3 or 4 experience per turn and they have to waste time to heal from taking damage. You're totally ignoring this essential fact along with the fact that Waraqaqs don't take damage when they attack cities in the first place.

You can easily have 6-7 strength 60 double attack, fast moving level 3 Waraqaqs after the first war. From there they'll annihilate anything they see up to the industrial era.

You must not have built enough Waraqaqs or used AI cities to farm experience.

 

[Victoria]

I was trying to help you have a balanced view @MarigoldRan
I have taken out entire civs before you get your first. By the time You have your first, I could have 50.
I’m done, ign in place.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Big whoop. And I've conquered half the world with Scythia before you get 20.

Cya.