who should i attack, (saved game attached)
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CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Flight costs 5760 beakers to learn. Over five turns, that is 1152 beakers per turn. Each scientist/geek/Sheldon Cooper produces 3 beakers per turn, so that breaks down in 384 science specailists. As a rough guess, Tusker probably has about 100 science farm cities.
There is a lot of prime science land down in the southwest.
The utility CivAssist II (CivAssist II) gives the breakdown of the cost of technology (in beakers) and a lot of other helpful things.
MapStat, part of CRpSuite : Playing aids and game analysis utils, is also a helpful tool that uses less resources than CivAssist II.
Both of them are free downloads, developed by people here at the forum. They are spoiler free. They don't give you any information that is not available in the game.
For instance, both tools will let you know which of your cities that will go into shutdown next turn if you don't do something this turn. That is much easier than cycling through your cities each and every turn to check for that.
I use MapStat more than CAII. My older machine could not handle Civ3 and CAII at the same time so I had to use MapStat and got used to it. CAII is prettier but most of what I need in-game I can get from MapStat (city counts, cranky cities and trade deals). Also, I can Alt+Tab between MapStat and Notepad and Civ3. With CAII, I cannot Alt+Tab from CAII directly into Notepad; I have to go to Civ3 first from CAII and then into Notepad.
Anyway, that is what worked for me.
They can be used with Hall of Fame submissions.
Neat Trick with MapStat
I keep my saves in seperate folders. If I point MapStat to a saved game in that folder, it will open the most recent save. If I save a new game into that folder, MapStat will update itself with the latest data; I don't have to do anything but save the game. I think CAII works the same way but I have not used it in-game enough to know for sure.
EDIT:
CivAssist II (Thread and Download) and CRpSuite : Playing aids and game analysis utils (Thread and Download)
There is a lot of prime science land down in the southwest.
The utility CivAssist II (CivAssist II) gives the breakdown of the cost of technology (in beakers) and a lot of other helpful things.
MapStat, part of CRpSuite : Playing aids and game analysis utils, is also a helpful tool that uses less resources than CivAssist II.
Both of them are free downloads, developed by people here at the forum. They are spoiler free. They don't give you any information that is not available in the game.
For instance, both tools will let you know which of your cities that will go into shutdown next turn if you don't do something this turn. That is much easier than cycling through your cities each and every turn to check for that.
I use MapStat more than CAII. My older machine could not handle Civ3 and CAII at the same time so I had to use MapStat and got used to it. CAII is prettier but most of what I need in-game I can get from MapStat (city counts, cranky cities and trade deals). Also, I can Alt+Tab between MapStat and Notepad and Civ3. With CAII, I cannot Alt+Tab from CAII directly into Notepad; I have to go to Civ3 first from CAII and then into Notepad.
Anyway, that is what worked for me.
They can be used with Hall of Fame submissions.
Neat Trick with MapStat
I keep my saves in seperate folders. If I point MapStat to a saved game in that folder, it will open the most recent save. If I save a new game into that folder, MapStat will update itself with the latest data; I don't have to do anything but save the game. I think CAII works the same way but I have not used it in-game enough to know for sure.
EDIT:
CivAssist II (Thread and Download) and CRpSuite : Playing aids and game analysis utils (Thread and Download)
Moosezilla
Grognard Warlord
@CB;when I click on the website listed in the thread you linked us to I get a 404. I'll look in the forum's DL section. Yes it is there.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
My bad. I did not check the download links, only the thread links.
I updated my signature include both.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
As of 1760, I have about 60 size-12 science farms and another 40-50 smaller ones (either locked at size 6 or growing at 7-9...I had a lot of aqueduct builds going on). Size 12 farms have 6 scientists on average; the smaller ones have 2-3.
timerover51
Deity
That is one reason why I mod the game and boost the resource yields along with changing the town and city size. Then I do not have to worry about science farms, and get my research done in the minimum time possible with no problems. Generally, I am doing that with about 10 or so cities, max. Much easier to keep track of things too.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
This is my fifth turnset, ending at 1730 AD.
We have just started learning Flight. At 0% science, it is 13 turns away. We generate 444 beakers per turn, a long, long away from Elephantium's 1000+ per turn.
For some reason I have had more fun making Zululand into a geek paradise than the southwest corner of Maya. I think the real reason is that it was much easier to do that in Zululand than the homeland. In Zululand almost everyone is building wealth. In the great southwest, citiies are making settlers because we still need them. I think I need to look at that this next turnset.
Turn Log
We have just started learning Flight. At 0% science, it is 13 turns away. We generate 444 beakers per turn, a long, long away from Elephantium's 1000+ per turn.
For some reason I have had more fun making Zululand into a geek paradise than the southwest corner of Maya. I think the real reason is that it was much easier to do that in Zululand than the homeland. In Zululand almost everyone is building wealth. In the great southwest, citiies are making settlers because we still need them. I think I need to look at that this next turnset.
Turn Log
Spoiler :
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
This is my sixth turnset, ending at 1762 AD.
We learn Flight this IBT, all of the learning done by geeks.
Zululand is fully settled and we getting a few geeks from it.
Arabia is also turning into another geek haven.
Incan war is going well.
Turnlog
We learn Flight this IBT, all of the learning done by geeks.
Zululand is fully settled and we getting a few geeks from it.
Arabia is also turning into another geek haven.
Incan war is going well.
Turnlog
Spoiler :
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
If you allow a city to grow and add Mayan citizens, then they will be part of the first worker/settler created. So, if took Intombe and let it grow in size during the 10 turns it takes to make an un-rushed worker, it would be a normal (Mayan) worker and cost you upkeep. If you fiddled with the citizens and set Intombe to not grow any, or grow very slowly, then it would produce a Worker (Zulu), a slave, and cost you no upkeep.
The last added citizen in a city becomes the first citizen used to determine the nationality of the next worker/settler created by that city. Workers are pretty easy to determine. For settlers it is a bit more compicated and I am not sure how the nationality is determined when a Mayan and Zulu citizen make a settler. I think it goes to the last citizen added, which here would be Zulu. (A Last-In First-Out inventory system).
Building settlers from large captured cities can be a problem if that civ is not eliminated. A Settler (Zulu) from Intombe will still pine away for the good old days before the Mayans came. So a new city started by that settler will have a slight flip risk. Once the Zulus are destroyed, the remaining Zulu citizens in the cities suddenly realize that the Mayans aren't such bad guys after all. Once the last rebellious are quelled there is no flip risk. Well, not back to Zulu anyway.
So, capture the cities. If you want Workers (Zulu) or Settlers (Zulu) do not let the cities grow in size.
The last added citizen in a city becomes the first citizen used to determine the nationality of the next worker/settler created by that city. Workers are pretty easy to determine. For settlers it is a bit more compicated and I am not sure how the nationality is determined when a Mayan and Zulu citizen make a settler. I think it goes to the last citizen added, which here would be Zulu. (A Last-In First-Out inventory system).
Building settlers from large captured cities can be a problem if that civ is not eliminated. A Settler (Zulu) from Intombe will still pine away for the good old days before the Mayans came. So a new city started by that settler will have a slight flip risk. Once the Zulus are destroyed, the remaining Zulu citizens in the cities suddenly realize that the Mayans aren't such bad guys after all. Once the last rebellious are quelled there is no flip risk. Well, not back to Zulu anyway.
So, capture the cities. If you want Workers (Zulu) or Settlers (Zulu) do not let the cities grow in size.
timerover51
Deity
I think that the faster work of the regular workers more than compensates for the upkeep cost. I do not like using slaves at all.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
IIRC you heavily mod your game to suit your preferences though...that doubtless affects unit valuation.
Besides, you're still better off using the foreign workers in accounting terms. Two slaves do the work of a single native...and cost less than half the price. That ignores moral considerations of slavery, though.
timerover51
Deity
I have already gotten into trouble once here with respect to discussing the moral consideration of Slavery, and have no desire to deal with that again. I again state that I refuse to use slaves. And yes, I do modify the game a bit. Against that, the AI has full use of my modifications as well.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
All that is fine; I'm not looking to get you into trouble or anything. I do think it's worth noting that your advice on the game comes from a slightly different perspective because of your mods, that's all.
timerover51
Deity
I think that even in the standard game the faster work compensates for the upkeep cost. A standard worker can road or railroad a square twice as fast as a slave, so you get the additional gold benefit earlier, and you do not have to micromanage twice as many units. To me, time saved in micromanaging is also a factor in the game.
As for my modifications to the game, most of them involve unit combat ability, and resource yields, along with terraform changes. I do modify worker job time with some taking longer and some taking shorter.
Yeah, but a standard worker is not any faster than 2 slaves, but two slaves still cost no upkeep. If slaves cost some upkeep, but less than native workers, I'd find your position more convincing. With slaves costing zero upkeep, though, I don't see how natives can possibly stack up against them, in terms of utility. I will concede though, that I can certainly understand if you just don't want to manage hordes of slaves. In terms of turns, 300+ slaves can rail an empire in pretty short order. In terms of my playing time, it takes FOREVER!
timerover51
Deity
I cannot even think about micromanaging 300+ workers. I do not have that much time to waste.
It's been quite some time since I had any free time at all to "waste" on Civ. However, I figure that in terms of real-life duties, time spent playing Civ is just as productive (or just as much of a waste) with 300 slaves as it is without.
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