Why are PTW or C3C better than vanilla civ3?

[SirPleb]

On another point, do you personally like the conquests?

Yes. I played the first five of them and might go through the rest one day.

 

[sealman]

shadowdude.

If you are just a casual fan of the civ fanchise, which I find hard to believe since you have over 100 posts here , I would say don't bother unless you can pick up Conquests real cheap. However, as a fan of the game, pick it up. I don't play Multiplayer and I the whole feel of the game is better since the second expansion.

 

[shadowdude]

shadowdude.

If you are just a casual fan of the civ fanchise, which I find hard to believe since you have over 100 posts here

What do you expect, after all this is the Civilization Fanatics Forum

@everyone: I'm convinced Im gonna go buy it sooon

 

[Alexnm]

Do it. You won't regret your decision. Plus, you can try to win in the new Sid level and then come here and boast about your victory.

 

[mintyfreshdeath]

I don't understand why you would buy PTW when you can buy C3C and have everything that PTW introduced included.
Besides which, more civs -in so far as I'm concerned- means more variety. The two extra traits add alot to the game as do the new wonders.
If I had to go back to Vanilla civ I'd feel as if I only had half a game.

 

[shadowdude]

I don't understand why you would buy PTW when you can buy C3C and have everything that PTW introduced included.
Besides which, more civs -in so far as I'm concerned- means more variety. The two extra traits add alot to the game as do the new wonders.
If I had to go back to Vanilla civ I'd feel as if I only had half a game.

I'm going to buy PTW just C3C

 

[Dell19]

I'm going to buy PTW just C3C

Which one are you buying?

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

The more i think about it... even though PTW comes with C3C, don't you need a PTW cd to start it?

 

[Alexnm]

The more i think about it... even though PTW comes with C3C, don't you need a PTW cd to start it?

I think so.

 

[ainwood]

The more i think about it... even though PTW comes with C3C, don't you need a PTW cd to start it?

No! You can start it with the conquests CD! This gets stuffed-up if you apply the standrad PTW 1.27f patch, but the conquests version of PTW is patched already.

 

[Commander Bello]

@CyberChrist: I agree that armies were nearly useless before C3C. But I considered that acceptable, just a minor problem. It isn't imbalancing because you can just ignore them. Armies in C3C on the other hand are so powerful that they make the military approach to the game even more valuable than it was before. On the whole I consider C3C armies to be a more powerful use for Great Leaders than rushing wonders used to be.

Now, this is a statement, I don't get...
The useless armies you ignore and don't feel sad about it, but the powerful armies (which are only available to the human player due to bad implementation) you "have" to use them?

Of course, I like the punch of the armies very much. Often, they are my last means to survive.
But, if I would feel that they give me a boring advantage about the AI, I would just stay abstain from them.

I agree though, that there is a high tendency to convert a MGL immediately into an army. This could call for some self-discipline, if you were able to survive without making use of them.

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

No! You can start it with the conquests CD! This gets stuffed-up if you apply the standrad PTW 1.27f patch, but the conquests version of PTW is patched already.

Thankyou!!! I just freed up a cd drive by copying the PtW exe off the C3C cd

Just a little confused why the wrong one was there

 

[shadowdude]

Which one are you buying?

Sorry i screwed up while typing, I'm buying C3C.

 

[SirPleb]

Now, this is a statement, I don't get...
The useless armies you ignore and don't feel sad about it, but the powerful armies (which are only available to the human player due to bad implementation) you "have" to use them?

I could ignore using the powerful armies of course. But then that would make the game less interesting in that MGLs would have almost no purpose at all. Before C3C I could ignore armies and use leaders to rush great wonders. In C3C they can't. And there aren't many useful small wonders if one isn't using armies - forget about Heroic Epic, Pentagon, Military Academy. Even Forbidden Palace is not a big deal to rush since it is no longer very useful far away from the core. So in C3C if I want to ignore armies I have to pretty much ignore leaders. It is a lose-lose situation - less interesting if I use the armies and less interesting if I don't.

 

[Commander Bello]

I could ignore using the powerful armies of course. But then that would make the game less interesting in that MGLs would have almost no purpose at all. Before C3C I could ignore armies and use leaders to rush great wonders. In C3C they can't. And there aren't many useful small wonders if one isn't using armies - forget about Heroic Epic, Pentagon, Military Academy. Even Forbidden Palace is not a big deal to rush since it is no longer very useful far away from the core. So in C3C if I want to ignore armies I have to pretty much ignore leaders. It is a lose-lose situation - less interesting if I use the armies and less interesting if I don't.

As you have read in my first reply, I perfectly understand that one wants to make use of leaders and armies. So, I completely agree with your analysis.

Nevertheless, from a balancing point of view (and I just cannot express how much I regret this) it's just better to do without armies.
In one of my last games I couldn't get enough towns and had to stick with just three armies, but used some MGLs for things like courthouses and cathedrals - something, what really feels wrong...

 

[AngryGerbil]

I wanted to take a moment to disagree with the master (SirPleb)

I think the lethal air bombardment is a major improvement. Now, air war matters. If you find yourself getting bombed into oblivion, you better build a SAM or a Mobile SAM (Flak). Moving a SOD into range of enemy bombers can be bad, unless you remembered to bring your friends (Flak and Mobile SAM) with you! Aegis Cruisers now have a purpose, they have AA capabilities that are better than that of a destroyer.

Because bombers are more powerful now, you have to keep it in mind when dispatching the troops, they could get ruined by a good bomber squad, plan accordingly.

Now, as for the AI's implementation of air war, yeah, it makes it too easy for the human player. But as far as multiplayer balancing goes, I don't see a problem. I think maybe your issue is with the AI's lack of ability to properly conduct an air war as opposed to the actual air war itself. ?? Maybe? I dunno, I play multiplayer against my roomates alot. In that regards, I like the new bombers, but as always, the AI just can't keep up with a human in tactical situations like that.

Anyway, overall, I think it is a good thing.

 

[IbnSina]

I want to agree with the master (SirPleb)! PTW is the version I play. Part of the reason is that my game has so many mods now that I can't be bothered duplicating them in C3C, but in any case, I'm not tempted. The conquests are nice, but I enjoy the epic single-player game, and PTW has (imo) the most balanced version of that.

 

[Sandman2003]

Yes, I definitely agree with you AngryGerbil. The lethal bombard improves the air war. The issue, once again, is with the AI's poor use of the tool. I would prefer to see an improved AI approach to handling the air war, than the removal of the lethal bombard.

I see three main areas of AI weakness in this regard:
1) The AI's behaviour is predictable. You know where the AI is going to strike with its bombers, and so can deploy your anti-air to much better effect than the AI can.

2) The AI does not reserve the use of its bombers to get the maximum impact from the lethal ability.

3) The AI appears not to rebuild its bomber fleet as you deplete it.

 

[ukrneal]

COnquests is well worth picking up. After nearly a year's sabatical of CivIII, I finally picked up COnquests. I was just tired of Vanilla Civ and was bored by it (maybe a little burnout since it was the only game I owned and played since it came out).

Conquests has lots of 'gimmicks' that are nice: more units, traits, etc. and they all add some variety that is nice.

But the best additions for me were:
1. Stock Exchange and commercial docks.
2. Improved armies and new scientific leaders.
3. Shift in game balance (now more balanced).
4. Diplomacy screen
5. The AI actually sends stacks of units to attack - intense attacks are a definite improvement

Since getting it, I have been very happy with the changes.

 

[Spadark]

I think C3C is the best!I have to say I don't like PTW!Cos new CIVs in PTW are all I don't.