Why do I keep losing to the AIs?

[Cavalry 1337]

QUESTION BEFORE YOU LOOK THE BELOW OVER: How do you make those silver industrial cities after the red early industrial ones? What advancement is needed?

I:

* Play Warlord.

* As soon as the game starts, setup Barracks. Thats my first priority in the beginning of the game, and thats the first thing produced in every city I create.

* Obtain wonders early (Gardens, Great Library, Mich Chapel), but since I get the gardens, I dont ever get a chance to get the Pyramids.

* I let Settlers improve the area as much as they can BEFORE they make cities

* Fortify over 10+ units in every city before even thinking of going to war.
Surround units around cities before going to war.

* When civil disorder happens, I use all the improvements needed for happies, and if I cant do that, I change them into those disco men to reduce surplus.

* I do not reveal the map as I am doing all the above since I dont want the computers taking forever on their turns (ex. their ships )

* Always switch to Monarchy for a fast population increase in cities.

* In advancements, I go all the way to Tactics and Mobile Warfare, and then I get pretty much lost since I don't know whats more important to obtain at that point.

^ Okay, so once I have succeeded all the above points, the game ends already and Im either second last because an AI was destroyed recently and a replacement came, or im last.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Silver industrial cities require the discovery of Automobile and Electronics.

First: forget the barracks. In the early game you want to claim as much land as possible. Build settlers. If it makes you feel comfortable, defend cities with one or two units, but don't worry about making them veterans.

Second: Pick and choose your wonders. You have little need for hanging gardens at warlord; try producing the pyramids instead, if you like them. Also, have a decent number of cities before you start a wonder, and, if possible, build them by stockpiling caravans.

Third: In the very early game, make new cities with settlers. Even if you want to play more perfectionist, settle a fairly large number of cities before starting to improve them.

Fourth: You don't need nearly so much preparation for war. If it makes you feel better to have defenders in your city, two or three should do fine for most cities. Take those other units and attack your opponent with them.

Fifth: You may need to use some luxuries to keep your citizens happy.

Sixth: Have at least some units exploring. You can turn off the "show enemy moves option" if you like.

Seventh: Consider switching your government to republic, if circumstances permit it, and definitely to communism (if you prefer to stay out of republic and democracy) when it becomes available. Switching to monarchy is a very good idea as soon as you get it.

Eighth: You'll have to research everything eventually, look at what the advances give you and choose what you would like first.

This advice I am giving you should improve your strategy significantly over what it is now, but it is not the same as I might give more experienced players. Your problem seems to be that you produce too many military units that you have no use for. Produce settlers instead and found new cities with them. If you are afraid that the computer is going to take a particular city, build walls, a barracks and three units to defend it; that should hold up to anything the computer throws at you at warlord. Also, build caravans in your cities, and send them to foreign civs on different continents for gold and science bonuses and continual trade routes. Above all, however, expand your civ whenever possible.

Play a game with this basic strategy:
Build a city.
Build a defensive unit. (Or 2 if it makes you feel better)
Build a settler with which to make another city. (Build 2 or 3 in the very early game)
Build a settler to improve the land.
Do with the city what you would like.

 

[Agent327]

Agreeing with the above I'd like to add this:

1) if you have 7-8 decent cities you have a sound base for further improvement and/or expansion

2) switching to Democracy between 1-1000 AD (depending on when you achieve the above) will boost city expansion and research the most

3) having achieved the above, if you get into any longer war, switching to either Communism or Fundamentalism (depending on how fast you still need to research) should keep you in the lead.

4) if you are in the lead technologically with enough decent size cities (size 15-20) going for the Apollo Program is a good option; otherwise, going for nukes (and SDI!) is a good alternative with an eye on capturing an enemy capital to cancel their voyage to Alpha Centauri.

Once you can achieve this on Warlords level (which isn't that hard to do), you'll find you can increase difficulty level to Prince and beyond.

 

[WildPony]

* As soon as the game starts, setup Barracks. Thats my first priority in the beginning of the game, and thats the first thing produced in every city I create.

As prof. Garfield said, far better to be thinking fast expansion first (settlers/settlers/settlers). Also, eventually when u build barracks, you won't need them in every city. You will find that u need military only in certain strategic locations, not everywhere.

Also, early exploration is invaluable. Find your enemies before they find you. This will help you to know where you need to place your defenders strategically instead of expending tons of resources to load up every city with them. You might find amazing benefit in sending out 5 warriors (or horses) in 5 directions very early in the game. I would do this instead of garisoning your cities and then crank out settlers to grow exponentially... One city becomes 2, 2 become 4, 4 become 8, 8 become 16, 16 become 32. Depending upon barb level, i might have no city defenders at all at this stage, opting instead to open up the land, know my surroundings, and impose my will on other civs before they can even begin to dream of imposing theirs on me.

* Obtain wonders early (Gardens, Great Library, Mich Chapel), but since I get the gardens, I dont ever get a chance to get the Pyramids.

Since warlord is the happiness level, i agree again with Prof. Garfield that happiness wonders become a lot less important. Pyramids would be a better choice for a first wonder. Since u love vet military, you might consider building Sun Tzu's too. As you improve your game, i believe there is no reason you couldn't get both pyramids and HG... and then every other wonder you want.

* I let Settlers improve the area as much as they can BEFORE they make cities.

This could be your greatest mistake of all. Far better to expand quickly by building more fast cities than to improve squares, most of which u won't use for many centuries to come. Think of it this way. A new size one city utilizes 2 squares... all of the food, trade and shields those two squares provide. You can postpone that by 5 turns to irrigate a grassland in an existing city so that it can gain a single food or you can immediately get all the benefits that a new city has to offer. Do we want 2 whole extra squares immediately or 1 extra food in 5 turns? Which is better?

* Fortify over 10+ units in every city before even thinking of going to war.
Surround units around cities before going to war.

Hmm... It's a close contest, but this could be your 2nd greatest mistake. It's a case of being so defensive that you bring great suffering to so many other essential areas of your game. These 10+ units in every city are what, veteran warriors? Whatever they are it is total overkill when you would benefit so greatly by building other units instead, namely settlers and exploring units, then perhaps veteran attackers. Another consideration, where needed, is to have small numbers of fast attackers to defend your civ instead of large numbers of defenders. When the enemy steps in with catapults, you kill them with your far reaching vet horses.

* When civil disorder happens, I use all the improvements needed for happies, and if I cant do that, I change them into those disco men to reduce surplus.

You might be expending more resources than u need on temples and colosseums when a small lux rate will resolve your unhappy issues throughout your civ. With certain exceptions such as in growing high trade cities to size 12 and beyond, I wouldn't likely build these contentment structures until i was done expanding. Ha ha, "disco men". I like that.

* Always switch to Monarchy for a fast population increase in cities.

This is a little advanced, but population growth in a celebrating republic might be something you can aspire towards. But Monarchy is undoubtedly a lot better than despo.

* In advancements, I go all the way to Tactics and Mobile Warfare, and then I get pretty much lost since I don't know whats more important to obtain at that point.

After Mobile Warfare, depending on your situation, the big military/naval/air techs to pursue are "Robotics" for howitzers that ignore city walls, Automobile which you already have for the bread and butter sea unit (Battleships), Amphibious Warfare for ports to enable the building of Vet Battleships, and Stealth for the amazing and wonderous Stealth Bombers and Fighters. But most games you should easily be able to conquor the enemy long before this, possibly with Elephants or Crusaders.

If you switch to this style of play, you could easily have 50-100 cities when your warlord enemies have 2-10 each. Overall i would advise you to be more proactive, expand and go get the enemy... Don't sit inside your cities and wait for them to come to you.

 

[Magic_gorter]

You forget one important wonder Wild Pony. Marco Polo Embassy. With that wonder you can change maps early with all civs (as long as you get the ai-civ to like you) and get all to techs they have already discovered. Especially at the higher levels it's the most important wonder to discover first or seccond (sometimes Hanging Gardens might be done first). But in my games 95% will be MPE as first wonder.

Knowing where the others are, is important for setting up a good trading game. Great Library should never be build. It could give you techs you don't want at that moment or not at all in the entire game.

 

[WildPony]

You forget one important wonder Wild Pony. Marco Polo Embassy. With that wonder you can change maps early with all civs (as long as you get the ai-civ to like you) and get all to techs they have already discovered. Especially at the higher levels it's the most important wonder to discover first or seccond (sometimes Hanging Gardens might be done first). But in my games 95% will be MPE as first wonder.

Knowing where the others are, is important for setting up a good trading game. Great Library should never be build. It could give you techs you don't want at that moment or not at all in the entire game.

Yes Magic this is true and i always build it. But with 10 defenders in every city and full irrigation before building a 2nd city, i felt this man had bigger issues than not building Marcos .

 

[rrhal]

To beat the AI you need to optimize your growth and expansion. Nothing says growth and expansion like settlers.

Try this just once:
Build first city where you start on first turn - no matter what. Set your workers on a grasslands with a resource or better if available. Build 2 settlers then build a warrior. Once a settler is built send it out to build the next city. keep doing this until you have 10 cities and 5 or 6 extra settlers to work tiles.

To raise an army for free don't pop any huts unless they are inside the working squares of one of your cities. You will never get barbarians and will almost always get a unit of some sort.

On Warlord you don't really need Hanging gardens (its a must on Deity but that's a different matter) Great library is junk; Marco Polo's is more useful.

I like to go Monarchy -> Trade for my first 2 nodes on my tech tree. That means that caravans are available early on. I build them early and often. Just stock pile them for when a wonder needs to be built. I build Colossus and Marco Polo's as my first two wonders. I'm a Super Science City kind of guy so I build Colossus, Copernicus', Newton's, and Shakespeare's all in one of my earliest cities. I build Mike's, and Leonardo's in another early city.

If you can accomplish this and then start delivering caravans to foreign civs you should crush the AI on warlord. by that I mean run the tech tree by 1200 AD - Stealth fighters vs pikemen

 

[Danny578]

I don't know why the last two posters don't build the Great Library. It is very helpful for victory especially in a 7 civ game. Is getting techs and not wasting your resources a bad thing? I love the fact that I get lots of the techs that I need and then can research techs no one else has. I usually get the more advanced techs and wonders because I get all the techs like magnetism. I have never researched magnetism once but I get it every game thanks to the GL.

To help out the poster, I'd say after you get tactics focus on getting electronics. I usually hold off on electricity until someone else gets it (I don't want to lose the GL). But then build the Hoover Dam which is vital. Get advanced aircraft, automobile, and robotics. After you get those three pump out howlitzers, battleships, and bombers. Move bombers across the world and airlift the howlitzers to the continent they're needed. Usually my bombers come on a carrier and destroy the first city and I land a few troops for support there. Then I pay for an airport to be built and start shipping in the guns. Conquer 2nd city, build airport, rinse and repeat until the enemy is defeated. Also, I'd recommend using Communism or even fundamentalism at this point. I like conquering the world rather than building the awful spaceship. I think conquering is easier especially after the ai gets rail road and lays the tracks for you to destroy them. I'd actually recommend not immediately getting mobile warfare because tanks are not that useful. Bombers are stronger and cannot be attacked except by fighters. *Cheat* if the ai doesn't have flight yet, use two bombers to escort your giant army through the field on one square. The ai can't touch you and can't attack you. A great way to move artillery and cannons through the field with no fear of attack. All you have to do is move the bomber before the end of your turn and select wait at the end of the turn. Then move and use the other bomber to wait this turn while the other refuels in your city. Oscillate this until you reach the city and conquer, then continue until the world belongs to you

 

[Magic_gorter]

Trust me that Marco Polo is even better then great library. With this wonder you can get all the techs the ai has... with great library you only get a tech when two civs have it. With MPE you can get the tech when you want it. And believe me that is much handier. And with GL you could get techs you don't need. Thats a waste of extra beakers.

 

[Russia4Life]

Trust me that Marco Polo is even better then great library. With this wonder you can get all the techs the ai has... with great library you only get a tech when two civs have it. With MPE you can get the tech when you want it. And believe me that is much handier. And with GL you could get techs you don't need. Thats a waste of extra beakers.

I have been wondering about this logic myself. You have to trade the AI for those techs though which gives them more techs and if they are constructing a wonder they won't trade with you at all. Also I don't get how it would be a waste of beakers you will have to research those tech eventually or trade for them giving the AI more techs. Maybe a difference in playing styles, but I like to keep to myself for the most part. The only time I have any contact with the AI is when they contact me. I research straight to specific techs I want and let the AI's fill in the rest with the Great Library. I can see how it might make getting more techs faster but the AI will also have those techs, Id rather just pass them all up myself and make them research all the old techs for me.

 

[civiijkw]

One thing I've noticed is that if you let an AI get Marco's then it seems common for the AIs to trade extensively to get techs. So if they are going to get the techs anyway you may as well decide which ones each AI gets. Also, I've found that GL will only give techs as they are aquired by an AI. If the trading or research was done prior to my getting GL then I haven't received the techs even if all six AIs already have them. In my first Prince-level game (my second game) the GL was a godsend for keeping up with the AIs. As my play improved I found that GL was much less useful.

As far as beaker cost goes, it is cheaper to research one tech and then trade for two more than it is to trade for two more and then research the one tech. Also, the tech sequence (and tech research exclusions) is such that sometimes you want to go after a certain tech after you finish your current research and if you end up receiving another one from the GL you may be unable to go after your desired tech. Marco's lets you decide WHEN you get the additional techs.

 

[randyripoff]

I find it really interesting how many people are down on the Great Library. Sure, I know that at Warlord level it isn't as vital as it might be at a higher level, but I build it if for no other reason than to keep the other Civs from getting it.

I don't mind trading tech early in the game, especially for stuff that I don't want to bother researching (like Horseback Riding, Feudalism, Pottery, etc.). However, as the game progresses and I open up a huge tech lead on the other Civs, I don't want any of them riding my coat tails and making it difficult to maintain a strong tech advantage.

As far as early wonders go, here's my list:

Lighthouse: I tend to customize my world and play on lots of smaller islands, so having triremes that don't sink is very important to me.
Pyramids: Not quite as important, but really useful, especially since they don't expire.
Great Wall: Early in the game, I would just as soon not go to war since I'm focused on exploration and expansion. Having the Great Wall on my side is really nice, especially when it comes to the negotiating table.
Marco Polo's Embassy: Once again, really useful for trading techs and maps early in the game.
Great Library: Like I said, I build it to keep it away from the other Civs. I may get little to no use from it later on, but keeping it to myself does the job.

Colossus is a nice to have, but not crucial.

I almost never build Hanging Gardens unless I'm bored. Same with Oracle.

A little later in the game, I love to build Shakespeare's Theatre in the city that I build most wonders in. And to move to Republic, Michelangelo's Chapel is a must. Of course, I think that Leonardo's Expedition is another one that's nice to have, if only to keep it away from the other Civs.

 

[Magic_gorter]

One thing I've noticed is that if you let an AI get Marco's then it seems common for the AIs to trade extensively to get techs. So if they are going to get the techs anyway you may as well decide which ones each AI gets. Also, I've found that GL will only give techs as they are aquired by an AI. If the trading or research was done prior to my getting GL then I haven't received the techs even if all six AIs already have them. In my first Prince-level game (my second game) the GL was a godsend for keeping up with the AIs. As my play improved I found that GL was much less useful.

As far as beaker cost goes, it is cheaper to research one tech and then trade for two more than it is to trade for two more and then research the one tech. Also, the tech sequence (and tech research exclusions) is such that sometimes you want to go after a certain tech after you finish your current research and if you end up receiving another one from the GL you may be unable to go after your desired tech. Marco's lets you decide WHEN you get the additional techs.

Very well explained and as randyripoff mentioned you can trade maps.
Marco Polo is great in the first half of the game. At that point the ai will have some techs you want (just after building it). And then you can use MP to let te ai do research for you. If playing smart and with a little luck you can get the ai research the techs you want. About the time you get democracy you are normally way ahead in techs at that point MP is not of much use for getting techs but you can give your keyciv techs to lower your researchcosts and trade for maps with other civs just give them once in a while a few techs to keep them happy.....

 

[rrhal]

Note that the GL is 300 beakers vs 200 for Marco Polo's - that's half an important wonder like Colossus, pyramids, or Lighthouse depending on your play style.

If a Civilization is building a wonder with a tech you don't have then they won't trade techs with you. If you can find a civ that has the tech but is not building that wonder you can trade techs with them. Then you can go back to the first Civ and they will probably trade the tech you wanted in the first place.

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

First: forget the barracks. In the early game you want to claim as much land as possible. Build settlers. If it makes you feel comfortable, defend cities with one or two units, but don't worry about making them veterans.

I agree with this.

I'm far from an expert player, but I like to crank out settlers as fast as possible in the beginning. I don't even defend my cities at first...the way I see it, if the Barbs kill me at that point in the game I only had a few minutes invested anyway.

When I bump into other civs, I appease them and start building my military, and I use my leftover settlers to improve the land and then add them to the population of existing cities.