Why doesn't the AI ever give you free stuff?

[Kolyana]

I think I've had this ONCE - a tech for nothing. I would like to see greater diplomatic options, so rather than DEMANDING a tribute, you get a broader range of 'tones' for the same result:

1/ We'll declare war if you do not give us a tribute.
2/ We require this ... *NOW* and won't be happy if we don't get it.
3/ Could you poissibly give us Pottery as an act of friendship?

And it would also be nice if the AI was a little more 'human' in trying to buy friendship. They sure DEMAND techs a lot, even when weaker than me ... not sure what that's about.

 

[Psyringe]

Well, it's almost there already. You can demand techs, and you can politely ask for them. The game seems to adapt the choices you have according to your relations with the AI in question.

What you can't do yet is explicitly threatening to attack someone.

 

[Kolyana]

I've found sometimes though that I have bad relations with an AI *because* of the AI, and that doesn't mean that I want to make things *worse* by making demands, you know? The tone of the conversation that is initiated by me should be decided by me, and not by the AI. That is, if you dislike me, I can still come to you in a meak manner, cap in hand, and try to smooth things over ... the conversation may turn to hell, but I can still try.

The game seems to take how the AI thinks of you and apply this as the starting point for any future diplomatic interaction and that only seems to limit options immediately.

 

[Master Ray]

What difficulty level was that on?

I was playing on noble.

 

[ComradeDavo]

I was playing on noble.

Cool. Thats the level i'm playing on at the moment, but I haven't had that yet. I must learn to improve my diplomacy skills!

 

[ggganz]

Caesar said "here, you might need this" and gave me a .

 

[ChrTh]

A few things:

If you PA with another Civ, you automatically gain all their techs (you can joint research afterwards) and they'll give you anything you ask for. They'll offer you stuff that they have extra of that you haven't asked for, however, you can ask for stuff they *don't* have extra of as well.

Asking/Demanding for something from an AI does not give a diplo penalty. This is in the game to prevent you from demanding an AI until it declares war on you. This was likely done because of the DP dynamics and also because this was exploited heavily in previous versions of the game.

Gifting techs to the AI does not give you any diplo bonuses unless they ask you first. Otherwise, like the one above, you could just give out techs until everyone was Friendly with you.

The AI has given me techs up to Emperor (haven't played higher so I don't know). Being 'Pleased' or 'Friendly' in the relationship appears to be key for this, although it seems random otherwise.

 

[The Q-Meister]

Odd about the AI. I was totally destroying his nation, and all I wanted was one city to start my dominance victory. I needed more land area. Just some more to win.

Here I am about to obsolutely wipe him off the planet and he does not wish to negatiate when my military power is 3 times his?? I think he would gladly give me a city for a enforced peace. Which i think should be even longer than standard 10 turns.

In the end I had to 'remove' him completely. It was not my wish. Makes me feel like Darth Vader from Star Wars.

I agree. It seems that the AI does not recognize when they've been beaten and the need to compromise and give a few "gifts" in return for peace. Hopefully, with the new expansion's addition of "vassal states" it will take care of this problem somewhat.

 

[Tatran]

A few things:
Asking/Demanding for something from an AI does not give a diplo penalty.

Wrong.If your your relation is cautious or worse,you can get the "you made
an arrogant demand" penalty if the AI refuses.

Gifting techs to the AI does not give you any diplo bonuses.

Again wrong.You can get the "you shared your technology with us or something like that" bonus.

 

[girtholomew]

If you don't ask, you don't get.

The AI will be generous sometimes but you have to ask.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Why doesn't the AI ever give you free stuff??

It gives me free stuff when I ask, sometimes. Depend show much the Ai loves you and how much it would be to their advantage!

 

[ChrTh]

Wrong.If your your relation is cautious or worse,you can get the "you made
an arrogant demand" penalty if the AI refuses.

Really? Huh ... maybe because I never ask a Cautious or worse AI. Is it cumulative, or just a -1?

Again wrong.You can get the "you shared your technology with us or something like that" bonus.

I've gotten that before when the AI has asked, never when I've just given. However, as in all things in life, that doesn't mean I'm right.

 

[Mon Mauler]

Actually, when you gift the AI techs, the increase in the attitude modifiers can show up in one of three places...

First, it can show up as a positive with the quote, "you shared your technology with us." I think this usually shows up when they demand a tech from you.

A positive modifier can also show up as "You gave us tribute." You only get this modifier if you accede to their demands.

Finally, if you give a tech, the positive modifier could show up as, "Our trade relations have been fair and forthright."

I've noticed that the most I positive points I receive for "you shared your technology with us" to be +1 or +2. The same goes for "You gave us tribute." However, I am generally able to build up high positivie modifiers for "our trade relations have been fair and forthright." Sometimes this can be as high as +5 or +7. It should be stated, though, that I am not often in the practice of gifting techs and usually give resources to friends instead. Nevertheless, it seems that any extra goodwill you have from gifting techs or resources goes under the heading, "our trade relations have been fair and forthright."

At least that's how I think it works...

 

[MrCynical]

However, I am generally able to build up high positivie modifiers for "our trade relations have been fair and forthright." Sometimes this can be as high as +5 or +7.

It isn't possible to get it that high. It's specifically capped at +4 unless you've modified the game.

 

[Gr3yL3gion]

If they started to give you free stuff, you are propably lagging waaaaay behind...

 

[Red Wegener]

In one of my games I had a really bad start and was way behind in techs with only 4 cities, Ghandi then offered me a free tech and said, "Here, you look like you could use this." That was really funny but also a little insulting

 

[wiglaff]

Wrong.If your your relation is cautious or worse,you can get the "you made
an arrogant demand" penalty if the AI refuses.

Really? Huh ... maybe because I never ask a Cautious or worse AI. Is it cumulative, or just a -1?

yes, and this is cumulative. if i make 20 arrogant demands i can get up to -10

however, even with a furious AI, he still realized that declaring war on me would be suicide (I had plenty of defensive pacts and a much stronger army).

so the exploit doesn't really exist. the AI in this situation needs to both be upset by the modifiers and see some strategic opportunity.

 

[ronnybiggs]

Yeah, when there were four of us on a continent, I managed to make a friendly relationship with Qin Si Huang (sp?). It was awesome - we'd give each other money when we needed it for wars.

I think Mewtarthio makes a good point. When an AI makes a friendly request of you, they're testing you to see if you're a potential ally or not. If you're planning on running them over for their insolence later on, don't bother. But I find I need at least one ally to get anywhere. So pick one and agree to give them stuff - and reap rewards later.

I remember my first game on Prince level - I thought I was doing awesome but I knew nothing about diplomacy. Next thing I knew everyone allied themselves against me. F'ing horrible.

 

[ronnybiggs]

To answer Kolyana, yeah sometimes the AI is weird. Some can be such warmongers, they'll declare war on you even when they're weaker, you'll just take a city of theirs and see if they want peace again.

There is a way to take advantage though. If they're ready to talk, NEVER pick "Let's stop this pointless fighting and declare peace!" Make a trade proposal, and then ask them what is the price for peace. Usually, if they're at a disadvantage, they'll pay you handsomely for a cease fire.

 

[Cookie Crumbs]

Today I've just noticed that Gandhi's personality means you don't get negative modifiers for demanding tribute from him. So if you're way above him in power and he's in your game, you can just extort him.