Why is water transport so hard to get to?

[RobO]

I started an Archipelago game and immediately went for Sailing to get my expansion going. I then discovered that neither Galley nor Dragonship can carry units. The Trireme can carry one, but it requires Bronze Working and Copper as well. Theres so much other important stuff to research at start that going for Sailing and Bronzeworking first leaves a lot of basic stuff undone.

Is that on purpose?
Am I overlooking something?

 

[Brugarin]

You can upgrade your Galleys and Dragonships to give each an extra cargo space at the cost of their strength, in any of your coastal cities or pirate ports... It's not much, but you can transport units across water this way.

 

[Grey Fox]

Yeah all ships can get +1 Cargo with the right crew.

The problem with ships with only 1 cargo however is the AI. They ship one settler to an island or whatever, but once its there they wont settle, cause there's no defender. Then they ship another settler there, and continue this until they can't settle there anymore. (Plot comes under rival territory or whatever)

I think I've seen something like 4 settlers on a single island tile just standing there.

 

[JDexter]

I've never seen this... in my games the AI is pretty good at spamming the whole map with cities before I can do it.

 

[KingOfLands]

If you can wrangle some promotions, there's a +1 cargo one that shows up after Combat 1, if I'm remembering right. Or it's tech-based. Regardless, it ain't too hard to get to.

 

[DemonMaster]

Yeah all ships can get +1 Cargo with the right crew.

The problem with ships with only 1 cargo however is the AI. They ship one settler to an island or whatever, but once its there they wont settle, cause there's no defender. Then they ship another settler there, and continue this until they can't settle there anymore. (Plot comes under rival territory or whatever)

I think I've seen something like 4 settlers on a single island tile just standing there.

Yeah, I have seen this too (quite irritating) and I have seen way more than four. I have always wondered why the AI don't settle.

Perhaps cargo spaces should comes in groups of 2 then. I mean the promotion gives +2 cargo space and the "temporary" promotion that you can give a ship when in port also gives +2 argo space and so on. Ships that have just one cargo space starts with two. Then we should never have just one cargo space.

And 2 cargo space isn't much anyway. This change would also make the AI a little better at sea invasions, since it has more "natural" cargo space, even on good ships, like frigates.

PS
Ships should have more move too, especially early ships, a move of 1 or 2 is ridiculous.

 

[RobO]

A minimum of two on at least one of the basic ships (Galley, Dragonship) should do the trick, or on both. No need to change the cargo promotion you get with experience.

 

[Arctic Circle]

I still feel that at fishing you should get primitive rafts, and at sailing you'd ships able to cross any water terrain but whom have a risk of sinking if they'd do. That way you can take a chance and still be able to settle island early in game without having to beeline the naval line when you play archipelago or islands.

Like it used to be.

<--- Old timer

 

[MacGyverInSpace]

Alternatively, the AI could be taught to use 3 ships for 2 defenders and one settler or 1 def 1 worker depending on their 'personality'?

 

[xienwolf]

Or just deny the ability to load Settlers on any ship with a current cargo capacity of 1 (either completely or just in the AI logic)

 

[Dora190]

Or just deny the ability to load Settlers on any ship with a current cargo capacity of 1 (either completely or just in the AI logic)

The problem with that is that the AI then won't settle islands at all, at least until multiple cargo carriers become available. I must admit, I like archipelago maps, and i find it very very rare to see an AI ship with the cargo promotion.

 

[xienwolf]

I'd see that as a seperate issue. One solved by providing more "easy" barbarian naval targets to kill for experience on early transport ships, and increasing the AI Weight factor of extra cargo space in a ship.

 

[Ecofarm]

Any 2 xp civic will do to get the cargo promotion. Creating a bunch of stuff to kill so that someone does not have to take one of the xp civics (the first of which is ancient era) seems silly.

 

[xienwolf]

Valid point. So all that needs done then is a large AI Wieght on extra cargo space then. That way if they run the XP civic they'll have space to carry more than a single settler.

 

[Ecofarm]

Unfortunately, you kinda also need "If naval production, then xp civic"*. :/ It seems likely (?) that an AI is not in Apprenticeship but wants to colonize. Perhaps Apprenticeship is earlier enough and without options for long enough that it is not a problem.

*For a complete fix. Or min 2 capacity on all boats.

 

[DemonMaster]

Why complicate things so. To have a minimum cargo space of 2 isn't such a big deal, you cant launch a massive invasion based on that (alone) and it allows all sorts of civs (apprenticeship or not) to be able to have a settler and a guardian on a boat).