Why Korea may *NOT* be included in the XP

[monkspider]

First and foremost, I do hope Korea does make it in the game. If it were up to me they would certainly be in, but at this point there are good reasons to believe that they are not included.
The gamespot preview of e3 released just moments ago reveals that there is going to be 17 (!) new units in the Feudal Japan themepack. That is a large number of units, and the fact that they didn't show any pictures of any of the WW II or Feudal Japan scenarios in the released screenshots besides possibly this one, points strongly in the direction of this unit IS actually from a scenario. In fact, in all the websites which mention the hwacha, it is always being described as being a time in which Korea was at war with Japan. This fact alone strongly points to Korea only existing in the feudal japan scenario.
Probably the strongest reason that we are jumping to conclusions with Korea here, and one that I didn't think of until a few moments ago, is that their unit would be an artillery unit and as such, it would be one that would turn our system of Golden Ages on it's ear. Currently, a golden age occurs when a UU "wins" a battle, and I don't see how Artillery can "win" a battle unless lethal bombardment is turned on, and even then it is considerably more difficult than other units.
I think that with all these factors taken into consideration, unfortunately, it seems Korea will be relegated to the Feudal Japan scenario.
On a goodnote, if Korea is only in the themepack, then at least it will be easy for our hackers to add them as a 9th civ, even if they only have one animated leaderhead. They will certainly have a number of cool UUs to choose from.
I really, really hope that I am proven wrong though. I was once a key supporter of Korea in the XP civs vote at Apolyton a few months back.



If Korea is out, that means there will be an american civ at least, most likely the Inca, and at least one middle-eastern civ. However, my prediction is this, with all the violence in the middle-east Firaxis may not want to stir up any contraversy prematurely, but I think the last two civilizations will be the Hebrews and the Arabs.

 

[Richard III]

Well, I'd like to see the Hebrews; I think the mideastern Islamic civs are otherwise already ably represented through Persia, Egypt and Bablyon.

But re: the Hwacha, the US has F-15s - a bombardment unit. While the F-15 can kill other aircraft, it isn't so likely to. With that in mind, it doesn't take a big leap to see Firaxis giving the Hwacha a special "can kill" bombard capability.

 

[monkspider]

fair point Rich, but pre-1.21f how did the F-15 get the Americans a golden age if lethal bombardment was impossible? At least the F-15 had a possibility to get a golden-age through means other than bombardment, and for the Americans it was so late in the game that they have probably already had their golden age anyway. Not so for the Koreans, their unit comes presumably fairly early in their life cycle.
And while I echo your enthusiasm for the Hebrew's inclusion, I do have to show just a hint of disagreement with you on the Arab question. It is true that Persia, Babylon, Egypt, etc all eventually became parts of the Arab empire later in history, but weren't Germany and France once part of either Rome or the Celt's empire? Certainly none of us are arguing that those civs are redundant. I think it would be fair to see one Arab civ, either the Arabs or Turks, but having both would admittedly probably be overkill.

 

[Richard III]

Well, the Turks aren't really arabs either. The egyptians, on the other hand, didn't become the leaders of the "United Arab Republic" for nothing. Saddam and his Iraqi friends are, for the most part, arabs - and yet they are obviously also for civ purposes the direct descendants of the Bablyonians.

But still, I wouldn't be upset in the slightest to see them; it's just that I think the Hebrews are distinct enough that they should be ahead in line. But if there are arabs, would be amusing if they chose the Prophet to lead instead of a Sa'udi king. Just for controversy's sake, of course.

R.III

 

[damunzy]

Correct me if I am wrong but you can also get your gold age by building a Great Wonder that has the same specifics as your civ (Commercial, Religious, etc.). Have the Korean's nothing special about their military other than artillery? and who's to say that Firaxis doesn't make their artillery, catapults, etc. the only ones that are lethal by default. Ya never know.

 

[kring]

That is the other way to get a Golden Age.


Here is an update from IGN, I read it first at Apolyton link by m0lok0plus:

Here is some of it:

Firaxis told us a bit about two of them, the Mongols and the Spanish.

Other new civilizations include the Gauls, the Carthaginians, the Ottomans and the Arabs. We don't have any more details on those yet, but we wouldn't be surprised if the new units include berserkers and a new kind of war elephant.


IGN Article

 

[Tweedledum]

Simply because the hwacha was - in historical terms - an artillery unit doesn't mean it has to be in Civ3. Remember Civ2 when catapults could attack directly...?

 

[Zouave]

Originally posted by Tweedledum
Simply because the hwacha was - in historical terms - an artillery unit doesn't mean it has to be in Civ3. Remember Civ2 when catapults could attack directly...?

At least the AI USED bombardment units offensively in Civ 2!