Will a OCC foe ever DoW on you?

[Donny Brook]

I'm considering leaving several hapless foes alive with a OCC on the off chance that they DoW on me and provide some war happiness. Does anyone have any experience with this tactic? Is it more trouble than it's worth? I guess I'm wondering specifically if a OCC foe will ever DoW on me. I've had several chances to demand they leave my territory and they always seem to capitulate. I must have a 200-to-1 troops advantage over them so I'm wondering if it's coded in such a way that it's virtually impossible that they'd declare.

 

[Spoonwood]

Get them to build a ship. O.K., you can't do that. Ahem... *suppose* they build a ship. Build a submarine yourself and place it somewhere that their ship will go. When that ships attacks your submarine, you will have a war.

I don't know if any other way exists, and I kind of doubt that really helps you in your game, but in case it does, I've thrown it out there.

 

[CKS]

I've had one-city foes declare on me several times. I'm playing a game right now where Russia has one city on a one tile island, and they've declared on me. However, someone else recruited them into the war. I can't remember if the other OCC declarations were because of alliances or on their own.

I don't ever remember getting an OCC DoW from a boot order.

 

[Delphi456]

Pro: Leaving a harmless civ can provide 'leader fishing' opportunites.
Con: I think techs are more expensive if there are more civs in a game. (AFAIK)

 

[Bartleby]

I'm not sure if that's strictly true about more expensive techs...my understanding is that the cost of a tech depends on the number of civs that you know that already have the tech, the level you're playing and the size of the map (IOW if you're very backwards, eliminating an advanced foe will cost you, but once you're on top is doesnt matter).

Donny, are your OCC foes furious? I've never seen a furious AI not declare on a boot order...

 

[Donny Brook]

Donny, are your OCC foes furious? I've never seen a furious AI not declare on a boot order...

Really??? It happens to me quite often that they will not declare and yes, they're furious. I think it may have something to do with military strength. I typically use monarchy with lots of MPs so I look quite strong. At the OCC stage I have an astronomical troops advantage so I'm wondering if it's futile to seek a DoW. Maybe I'm so much stronger that they'll never declare.

What about you? If you're typically Republic, then I'd suspect a limited amount of troops so maybe a small foe would still DoW on you.

 

[Bartleby]

I should make it clear that offhand I don't actually remember booting an OCC AI, but regardless of government I'd certainly have a big military (most of my games would be Huge so unit support isn't a problem for my Rebublics; I won't give a boot order unless I know I can take them down, but as you suggest that doesn't necessarily mean I have an astronomical advantage in terms of numbers).

What's your aggression level? I remember SirPleb said in his Going for Sid game that he stopped using minimum aggression because he found the AI caved too much--but I dunno if that was just when rejecting demands.

 

[Spoonwood]

What's your aggression level? I remember SirPleb said in his Going for Sid game that he stopped using minimum aggression because he found the AI caved too much--but I dunno if that was just when rejecting demands.

I have a feeling that SirPleb didn't make them Furious before telling them to leave or declare... he just told them to leave or declare. Whenver I've used minimum aggression (almost always), given that I have a weak military compared to them, and I've made them Furious through stupid demands like cities, they've declared on me so far as I can recall. And I always play Republic... well once I fiddled with Democracy.

 

[Optional]

I have no experience with an enemy strictly down to one city, but several times small struggler civs have been dragged into an alliance against me by a bigger foe.
And my experiences would suggest that a civ down to almost nothing will sometimes still declare if they're angry with me because I'm sitting on towns of them and I give them a boot order. But if their attitude is friendly it would be hard to make them declare.
I never do anything to specifically wind them up, though; I'm not that manipulative.

 

[Bartleby]

I've never seen a furious AI not declare on a boot order...

Well...in my current game I made peace with the babs when they were a 5cc, in order to gift them up to the middle ages and get their free tech. So they ended up with a monopoly on Engineering and I couldn't get it off them without a sizeable gpt payment. "That's OK," says me, "I'll just boot them and get my money back without losing my rep."

So for the duration of the peace treaty, every turn I booted them and every turn they left. Minimum Aggression.

 

[Donny Brook]

Silly you! I warned you...

Aggression level may or may not be a factor. I'm my limited experience adjusting it, I haven't noticed a big difference in the AI.

I'm gonna stick with my hypothesis that once you are overwhelmingly strong, the AI will never declare. I'll have to manipulate or get lucky with an alliance against me if I want a DoW.

 

[Bartleby]

I believe you won't get WH from an alliance against you.

 

[pimserplink]

Overwhelming strength doesn't always stop the AI from making a suicidal DoW against you.

OCC foes will often attack you early in the game. However, once you have a few cities I don't think I've ever seen an AI OCC declare unless brought in through a MA/MPP. My spies tell me that they tend to focus on building defensive units that usually stay at home, with the odd settler to send off to those wastelands you created elsewhere.

I usually play Mon/Emp with AI aggression up at maximum, which is good for fomenting AI vs AI vendettas. If you get the balance right, they will continue to slug it out long after you left the fray to peacefully develop your overwhelming stength.

I played a large Emp game recently where I was left completely at peace from researching Republic through til just before completing my first tanks, even my 'war correspondents' were never attacked. I had almost 300 Cavs, spoiling for a show, but held the peace just to see how long it would last. This is quite rare though.