Will there be an actual scenario editor?

[Zany]

From what I gather, there is no true scenario editor. They use the word "map editor" and say over and over again that is used to place units and cities. And then they say that the next level up in modding (I'm not at all familiar with what python or boost or xml or whatever even is) allows you to change many of the rules without necessarily changing the core game. Then the next level up allows triggers and events and such, and the final one allows you to basically re-do the game from the ground-up.

This leads me to believe that there is a "map editor" in which you cannot change the game AT ALL, only place units, resources, et c. Even the vanilla Civ3 editor was better than that! You could at least change unit values, and the Conquests one was somewhat of an improvement (not nearly as spectacular as they claimed). I was hoping for a high quality scenario not map editor, in which you could change the rules in a streamlined and well-designed interface and also maybe add some event triggers or something. But now it looks like you have to go into some sort of text window and change the rules in a way novices will NOT even comprehend, and likely screw up.

Has anyone else been led to this conclusion, or is worried about it? I've been siding with the game developers and having faith in the progress and quality of Civ IV, but now it looks like they are aiming as modability for the advanced gamer not the novice who wants to change around a few things. I really hope they end up including an advanced and true scenario editor in the game, not some map-generating piece of cr@p.

 

[Trade-peror]

Agreed. I suggest that they take a look at the Warcraft III scenario editor, which had an easily understandable interface for novices but also custom code and manual tweaking options for advanced modders.

 

[warpstorm]

Probably, but xml is very easy and there are good free tools to make it even easier. A simple xml tool would be about as good as the Civ3 editor.

 

[Leprechaune]

Yeah, I think that's more or less the thinking there... Why make a new editor interface when there are already suitable tools available to use now.

Sort of like SimCity did with using the Plugin for their Architect tool.

 

[bkwrm79]

I'm worried as well. What I really want is a simple point-and-click interface. I want to be able to alter values, add units, etc. without messing around with any programming language - and preferably without having to mess around in text files (except for adding civilopedia entries). Everything that can be expressed in an integer should be modable this way (e.g. the movement bonus offered by Magellan's Expedition should be customizable).

 

[warpstorm]

XML isn't a programming language. It's a data format. The XML good editors are point and click (plus typing in values where appropriate). XMLSpy home edition should be easy enough for your mom to figure out, yet more powerful than you need (and free).

Personally, I'd rather Firaxis didn't waste time and money developing something that is readily available, but spend those resources on the game itself. I applaud them for storing their data in industry standard formats.

Rather than worrying, take an afternoon and learn basic XML editing and another couple of days to learn Python scripting. It is useful knowledge in the real world too.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Besides what Warpstorm said, if they did spend time developing a simple(r) editor that shielded the user from some basic XML or Python, people wouldn't be happy with that either. No matter how much they included, people doing mods would want to do more. So now they are hitting walls in the "simple" editor--and thus forced to go learn basic XML or even Python anyway.

Customized XML editors are so ridiculously easy to tweak (or even write from scratch) that I'm sure one will appear within a couple of months of the release of CIV4. Heck, it could be as simple as writing an XML schema for one of the current tools, like XMLSpy. But since the person supplying it will be in control, it will gradually improve as people use the tool.

No doubt it will take longer, but I see code snippets of Python eventually going the same route, if demand warrants. When Firaxis decided to provide those four levels of modding, they didn't merely provide the modding. They also provided the window for the modding community to improve the modding process.

 

[Polietileno]

But I still think that Firaxis should sell a Editor´s Pack:
Not only a simple map editor, but also a XML tool, Phyton Tools and Coding managment. Also, they could have a Graphic Pack, to make artwork and 3D Stuff.

 

[Dale]

Polietileno:

Map Editor: Buy when Civ IV is released (ships with game)
XML Tool: http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=xml+editor&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
Python: http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=python+editor&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

So why bother Firaxis creating one when there's thousands already? Let then make a game that works first!

Dale

 

[letis]

I'm worried as well. What I really want is a simple point-and-click interface...

The most important is here imho. I'm glad to know there are tons of XML and Python editors in the wild, but a consistent scenario editor would be a good start point. I'm sure that at a point we would have to use third paty tools, but the less will be the best

(I admit I miss Empire Earth / AOE series scenario editors)

regards,

 

[Polietileno]

Polietileno:

Map Editor: Buy when Civ IV is released (ships with game)
XML Tool: http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=xml+editor&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
Python: http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=python+editor&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

So why bother Firaxis creating one when there's thousands already? Let then make a game that works first!

Dale

I Know there are editors out there (I have the XML Editor for the NBA Live series) but I think the should have a 3D interface Editor. Those out there cost to much money...

 

[Dale]

I Know there are editors out there (I have the XML Editor for the NBA Live series) but I think the should have a 3D interface Editor. Those out there cost to much money...

Simcity 4 had a free one that plugged into 3d studio max (I think it was) which was also a free cut-down version. I'm sure they'll have the same for Civ.

 

[warpstorm]

I think the should have a 3D interface Editor. Those out there cost to much money...

The reason they cost so much is that they cost a lot to develop. A top notch 3D editor can easily cost as much as Civ4 to develop, yet likely sell less copies. Having said that, I've seen screen shots of a trigger state specific unit formation editor for Civ4, so who knows if they are giving more than the basics.

 

[Milan's Warrior]

What!?!?! No scenario editor.
There has been so many threads on this and I am sure that many people said there would be one.
Scenario editor is foundamental for me. How would I have played Civ3 without editing out pollution and reducing corruption?
I certainly don't want to learn another programming language for modding a game.

 

[Thorn Is]

I'm not too worried
Give it some time and I'm sure someone here will develop a easy editor or a multi tool kit