Winning with Ragnar...

[Ramesses-Rules]

Just for a change of pace, I have been experimenting with Ragnar as my leader. I can win pretty consistently at Emperor level with Ramesses and cultural victories. But I'd like to try warmongering with Rags. Is there anybody here who likes to play Ragnar?
What is your early-game building sequence? I have tried various things with little success. At Immortal, you almost never get Bronze and almost always get Iron in or close to the capital. But you can't just beeline to Iron, because the economy weakens too much. I put a couple Archers in the capital, build a Library, and don't expand until I have Iron Working. That works better than the first dozen things I tried, but it's not good enough. All advice appreciated!

 

[Lemon Merchant]

I always play random leaders at Monarch, and I don't mind when Ragnar pops up (as long as he's me. )

I hate barbs, but I refuse to turn them off, so I usually try for the GW. It's the only wonder I usually build, as I take the rest. I tend to play an economically heavy game, so I hold back a little at first with my expansion. I'm a little more conservative at Monarch. Once I have a metal tech, I tend to collect some fresh new cities from my neighbors and consolidate.

Then I move on to losing the game.

 

[*Svart*]

Ragnar is solid. He's sweet on water map cause the sinergies between UU and UB, fast moving sheep loaded with anphibious attackers. I love financial+aggr.

 

[NihilZero]

I hate the vikings. Hunting and Fishing as starting techs? Forget it. Unless you're playing with huts on and you pop a tech or two with your scout, you are brutally handicapped on higher levels with such dire techs.

 

[itg]

I like Ragnar, even on immortal. Starting techs are crap except on a seafood start, but you can get past it. The traits are good for a warmongering game, and UB makes naval warfare a lot of fun.

Don't delay expansion until iron working. You can handle the barbs without strategic resources if you have to. Use warriors as spawnbusters, archers if you're feeling uneasy. As for early war, don't expect to axe rush every game--your starting techs make it difficult (even more so than normal on immortal), although not impossible with the right start. You can start warmongering once you have an economy going.

 

[Windsor]

Saladin have crap starting techs. Ragnar has very safe starting techs. You will never be in a position where you can't improve your food resource straight away.

So while Ragnar doesn't give you a head start, he will never fail completely either.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Ragnar has very safe starting techs. You will never be in a position where you can't improve your food resource straight away.

Er...what? Ragnar starts with Hunting/Fishing. What if you have grains/livestock and no seafood/camp resources? Often happens with inland starts.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

You'll always have time to tech agriculture or animal husbandry before your worker completes though. Animal husbandry has hunting as one of the pre-reqs.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

The problem is that you don't have Wheel, Agriculture, or Pottery at the start. So, unless you have some animals in your capital city, there is literally nothing for your Worker to do. I have adopted building the Barracks first, then these worker techs, then either a Worker or Settler (depending on how much pressure I am feeling from the other civs). Assuming I can't get Bronze (which, at Immortal, seems true 95% of the time), I build a Library to research Iron. Once I get Iron, I wipe out a couple Barb cities to get up to 4 cities and to give my Swords +2 experience. After that, it depends on the map. That is my current Rags strategy, but it definitely needs more refinements.

 

[Windsor]

Well, if you don't have livestock and no seafood you got grains. So start building a worker while you research agriculture and then probably mining. Agriculture will finish sooner than the worker.

Whatever your food resource is you will always have to tech required when you need it. Only America, Holland, Greece and Native America share that ability.

Vikings don't have to start on warrior first more than other civs, quite the opposite actually. Especially Civs who start without agriculture or hunting suffers in many games since they have to wait a few turns. Still, I do agree that sometimes you have a bit of slowdown on the 2nd tile to improve.

 

[ruff_hi]

I tend to play an economically heavy game, so I hold back a little at first with my expansion. I'm a little more conservative at Monarch.

Then I move on to losing the game.

Too funny! You cannot afford to not expand aggressively at Monarch and above.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

Well, if you don't have livestock and no seafood you got grains. So start building a worker while you research agriculture and then probably mining. Agriculture will finish sooner than the worker.

Whatever your food resource is you will always have to tech required when you need it. Only America, Holland, Greece and Native America share that ability.

Vikings don't have to start on warrior first more than other civs, quite the opposite actually. Especially Civs who start without agriculture or hunting suffers in many games since they have to wait a few turns. Still, I do agree that sometimes you have a bit of slowdown on the 2nd tile to improve.

The other option is to build Wheel and have the Worker do roads when he has nothing better to do early. It is possible to handle barb Archers for awhile with only Warriors (who got anti-Archer promotion fighting animals), but I find that hard on my nervous system!

 

[itg]

The problem is that you don't have Wheel, Agriculture, or Pottery at the start. So, unless you have some animals in your capital city, there is literally nothing for your Worker to do. I have adopted building the Barracks first, then these worker techs, then either a Worker or Settler (depending on how much pressure I am feeling from the other civs). Assuming I can't get Bronze (which, at Immortal, seems true 95% of the time), I build a Library to research Iron. Once I get Iron, I wipe out a couple Barb cities to get up to 4 cities and to give my Swords +2 experience. After that, it depends on the map. That is my current Rags strategy, but it definitely needs more refinements.

Try doing what you would do with any other leader next time (unless this is what you do with any other leader ). Expand peacefully before taking barb cities. Otherwise, the AIs will box you into a corner. When there's no free land left, then think about barb conquest. As for techs, on immortal, you will normally do better going with alphabet or aesthetics and trading for IW. Jungle-heavy starts can be an exception.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

Try doing what you would do with any other leader next time (unless this is what you do with any other leader ). Expand peacefully before taking barb cities. Otherwise, the AIs will box you into a corner. When there's no free land left, then think about barb conquest. As for techs, on immortal, you will normally do better going with alphabet or aesthetics and trading for IW. Jungle-heavy starts can be an exception.

Your note arrived at a very timely occasion. I just lost another game. And I did do the usual gig of researching Alphabet (in Warlords, which I think is same as your Aesthetics in BTS). Yeah, I could trade it for Ironworking but the one and only Iron spot within 100 miles was already taken by Frederick and Bronze was always impossible. I do have a couple Elephants as my consolation prize, but the two Barb cities will be long gone by the time I could get to Construction and build elephants. There are not going to be any wars with Frederick, because all 4 of them have the same relgion (which, of course, has never spread to me). Forget it.

Bottomline: After losing a dozen games playing Rags at Immortal, I have come to the conclusion that if you don't get Iron (assuming, as usual, there is no Bronze in sight), you are done. Nothing else matters. I guess I could slug on and see what I might be able to do against Frederick with my Elephants eventually, but I think I will just start a new game and go Library>Ironworking. I don't have time to mess around with Alphabet.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Immortal in warlords is properly hard.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

Immortal in warlords is properly hard.

Yes, it is. And with that I had to check your location because only British use the word "proper" that way. My new game has some potential. I actually had some copper in my capital for once and Kahn was jamming my borders already, so I declared on him. I took two cities, pillaged his capital, and made peace. I picked up Hinduism in the process so that now Khan, Aoki, and I are all Hindu and the others have no religion yet. I have Elephants again. So current plan is to get to Construction and use the Elephants and my Great General to finish off Khan before he can get to Feudalism. The wild card is that Napoleon is top military dog, and I have no idea what he might do.

 

[itg]

Your note arrived at a very timely occasion. I just lost another game. And I did do the usual gig of researching Alphabet (in Warlords, which I think is same as your Aesthetics in BTS). Yeah, I could trade it for Ironworking but the one and only Iron spot within 100 miles was already taken by Frederick and Bronze was always impossible. I do have a couple Elephants as my consolation prize, but the two Barb cities will be long gone by the time I could get to Construction and build elephants. There are not going to be any wars with Frederick, because all 4 of them have the same relgion (which, of course, has never spread to me). Forget it.

Bottomline: After losing a dozen games playing Rags at Immortal, I have come to the conclusion that if you don't get Iron (assuming, as usual, there is no Bronze in sight), you are done. Nothing else matters. I guess I could slug on and see what I might be able to do against Frederick with my Elephants eventually, but I think I will just start a new game and go Library>Ironworking. I don't have time to mess around with Alphabet.

Warlords, huh? Well, maybe some of my advice doesn't really apply, I wouldn't know. That said, I think you're heavily overprioritizing access to iron. The way you phrase your post it sounds like you're trying to play Ragnar differently from other leaders. Do what you'd do with anyone else. There's absolutely nothing wrong with passing up classical/medieval war altogether. Heck, you can go culture if the map calls for it. If warriors can't handle the barbs and you don't have any strategic resources, archers should do the job.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Yes, it is. And with that I had to check your location because only British use the word "proper" that way. My new game has some potential. I actually had some copper in my capital for once and Kahn was jamming my borders already, so I declared on him. I took two cities, pillaged his capital, and made peace. I picked up Hinduism in the process so that now Khan, Aoki, and I are all Hindu and the others have no religion yet. I have Elephants again. So current plan is to get to Construction and use the Elephants and my Great General to finish off Khan before he can get to Feudalism. The wild card is that Napoleon is top military dog, and I have no idea what he might do.

Of course I'm British, have you not listened to PolyCast 96?

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

Warlords, huh? Well, maybe some of my advice doesn't really apply, I wouldn't know. That said, I think you're heavily overprioritizing access to iron. The way you phrase your post it sounds like you're trying to play Ragnar differently from other leaders. Do what you'd do with anyone else. There's absolutely nothing wrong with passing up classical/medieval war altogether. Heck, you can go culture if the map calls for it. If warriors can't handle the barbs and you don't have any strategic resources, archers should do the job.

Well, I am pretty new at playing Rags, but the techers like Masa and Ghandi race out hopelessly ahead of me, and I can't compete with the other military dudes without metal. If I wanted to play for a peaceful Cultural Victory, I'd stick with Ramesses. I've already done that 1,000 times! I want a change -- WAR. It doesn't make much sense with Ragnar to by-pass the medieval wars when that is where Rag's UU comes into play. I did listen to that PodCast 96 episode from our British friend, and somewhere in there TMIT says you need a good starting position with Rags to win at the high playing levels. To me that means you need metal.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Ramesses (or Hatty) is good for war, too. The War Chariot is a very strong rushing UU, probably in the top 5.

Military traits like Aggressive or Imperialistic are not necessary to play warmongering games. In fact, many people prefer to have an economic trait like Organized or Financial. It can indirectly help with war even more than a military trait can.