WinXP stops booting after civ4 install

[dsg]

Hi all,

I just got this shiny new IBM T43 laptop, and figured I'd go ahead and install my civ4 on it (it works fine on my main computer).

The thing is, after I install the game, windows stops booting. I see the first booting screen, but before the blue "welcome" screen pops up, the screen goes black and nothing happens after that. I can boot into safe mode, and if I use system restore to restore to right before I installed the game, everything is fine. If I install the game again, same problem.

I have also tried pushing "cancel" when the setup starts the DirectX setup, and installing the game without it (I have DX9.0c anyway, dunno why it insists on reinstalling), but with the same problem.

Has anyone else had this problem? Better yet, any solutions?

Best regards,
dsg

 

[dsg]

This is just remarkable...

I reinstalled windows from scratch, without using the IBM preloaded stuff (just from a winXP disc I had laying around), but the same thing happens. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[Zydor]

IBM are not in the gaming end of the market and this laptop is not built for 3D games. Its primarily built for Business users, together with some Home Users who want a quality general purpose laptop. It does not have sufficient level of graphics processing power to run graphics intrensive 3D games, it may run some, but thats more by co-incidence than by design.

Its known as a 'thin & light" laptop, to get that low weight and compact size compromises have to be made, despite the glossy sales claims. The Mobility Radeons are on board graphics systems, they do not have graphics card support. It does not have any slots for a graphics card.

The laptops with Mobility Radeons are built into motherboards and have limitations compared to Graphics Cards. They use the main cpu for processing, and 'steal' main system RAM when they run out of on chip memory - they have problems with medium to high end 3Dgames, they do not have the processing power.

It is an excellent laptop for what it was built for - the Business User, and Home Users seeking a solid quality general purpose laptop, so from that angle a good buy, but its not a 3D game machine

As to a solution, thats more problematic. Two main areas to look at

- Reduce the graphics load by running lower textures, lower resolutions, and reducing background applications running at startup (look at MSconfig for the latter)

- The plus point is a very good processor the Pentium M 760 that will go a long way towards making up for poor 3D hardware. 1Gb of RAM would certainly help in your case as you need to give the cpu as much space as possible to make up for poor 3D hardware.

I would hold off for a couple of weeks on the RAM as it appears that the next Civ IV patch could be out within 2 weeks, given no final hiccups in release testing going on at the moment. The next Patch will have another big bite at lowering memory requirements and the usual batch of fixes etc. Not impossible that will help you.

Its possible that the Civ IV patch improvements will help, but in the long term without Hardware T&L support - ie a graphics card, you will have problems with 3D games.

Regards
Zy

 

[Akhenaton]

It does not have sufficient level of graphics processing power to run graphics intrensive 3D games, it may run some, but thats more by co-incidence than by design.

Even though this has nothing to do with dsg's problem (it seems that you just shovel this same boilerplate crap without even reading what is the member's problem!), this is most likely not true either. There are many ThinkPad T43 configurations, but any of the recent ones both meet CivIV MSR and are generally fast enough to play at reduced details/lower resolutions.

The laptops with Mobility Radeons are built into motherboards and have limitations compared to Graphics Cards. They use the main cpu for processing, and 'steal' main system RAM when they run out of on chip memory -

Not true at all. Mobility Radeons are discrete designs! They have their own memory and they interface the PCIe or AGP buses. The only difference to card Radeons is that they don't use a slot, instead they use a proprietary pin interface engineered for the laptop MB. They also don't "use the main cpu for processing" any more than card Radeons.

You just don't have a clue... The rest of your suggestions have nothing to do with the problem, which is that just installing the game stops his Windows from loading. That's NOT a problem in his computer, it's a CivIV or installer bug. A game should NEVER load something each time the computer is booted, and so have even a chance to **** things up untill the user tries to run it. The only thing that comes to mind which the installer definitely sets up to load automatically with Windows is the SafeDisc (backup preventor) driver. This it does, btw, without informing the user at all, a behavior similar to many types of malware (spyware, trojans, rootkits, DRM in general).

dsg, you could check if this is the cause of your problem by simply disabling the driver's autoload permission after install. This shouldn't affect it when CivIV actually needs it.

Attached two registry patches, disable with
safedisc_driver_autostart_disable.reg
re-enable the autostart functionality (if ever needed) with
safedisc_driver_autostart_enable.reg

 

[Akhenaton]

I have also tried pushing "cancel" when the setup starts the DirectX setup, and installing the game without it (I have DX9.0c anyway, dunno why it insists on reinstalling), but with the same problem.

Just in case you wondered, the reason why CivIV wants to install its own "DX9.0c" even if you have it already, is that it installs SDK files which are not needed in the normal runtime, for example d3dx9_26.dll.

 

[Turambar]

I have also tried pushing "cancel" when the setup starts the DirectX setup, and installing the game without it (I have DX9.0c anyway, dunno why it insists on reinstalling), but with the same problem.

My box came with a "Special Information" leaflet. First item reads:

"Important note regarding Directx: Even if your computer currently runs DirectX9.0c, re-installation of DirectX9.0c via the installer may be required to play the game. If DirectX installation is triggered in the installation process, DO NOT CANCEL OR SKIP THE DIRECTX INSTALL OR YOU WILL BE UNABLE TO PLAY THE GAME.[emphasis mine]

 

[Akhenaton]

My box came with a "Special Information" leaflet. First item reads:

"Important note regarding Directx: Even if your computer currently runs DirectX9.0c, re-installation of DirectX9.0c via the installer may be required to play the game. If DirectX installation is triggered in the installation process, DO NOT CANCEL OR SKIP THE DIRECTX INSTALL OR YOU WILL BE UNABLE TO PLAY THE GAME.[emphasis mine]

And how is this relevant to his problem? You quote yourself the part where he writes:

..., but with the same problem.

Besides CivIV is *****ing about the SDK libraries, not the Directx 9.0c runtime files. The SDK libraries are NOT delivered by Microsoft with the runtime, so I think it's misleading for CivIV to claim that it's installing "DX9.0c", because this usually refers to the runtime only. Besides, it's not necessary to install it from the CivIV CD, it can also be done by installing the SDK update from Microsoft. Or alternatively just the missing files. Interestingly, CivIV also relies on C++ CRT which is not installed with the OS (it's installed with .NET) and against Microsoft recommendation, CivIV doesn't independently distribute that library!

All of this is however entirely irrelevant to the problem he is having, which is CivIV messing up his Windows booting. No game should ever do that and "copy protection" is not a valid excuse either.

 

[Turambar]

And how is this relevant to his problem?

Are you asking an honest question or just being passive/aggressive? I will assume the former for now and connect the dots for you, try and follow along.

It sounded to me like he was being prompted to install DX. As you yourself point out Civ4 requires files (edit: not normally) included in the normal runtime distribution, and this is why he was being prompted. Yes? Still with me? But he keeps hitting cancel because he already has DX9.0c installed and doesn't think he needs anything updated/installed. Terminating the DX update prematurely may have corrupted some files leading to his video problems, e.g., he has video up to a certain point in the OS load after which it fails = corrupt file/bad driver....he boots into safe mode skipping the bad driver and has video again. Yes? Are you still with me? He uninstalls the game and reinstalls, again without updating his DX, and lo and behold he still has the same problem, what a surprise.

I therefore posted a solution: Let the DX update continue. Yes, of course you can get the 9.0c Software Developers Kit off M$ web site, but why go through the hassle when the files the OP needs are right on the CD?

Basically I was trying to succinctly tell the OP to RTFM with out coming off sounding like a know-it-all jerk. You knows those kind of guys, right Anky? To the Original Poster: Try letting the DX update proceed. Not saying it will fix all Civ4's problems (I was not prompted to install any DX files for my install and my Civ4 still runs like crap), but give it a shot.

 

[Akhenaton]

Are you asking an honest question or just being passive/aggressive? I will assume the former for now and connect the dots for you, try and follow along.

Oh, you could have saved us both some time by just being honest yourself and admitting up front that you are just guessing along without any real information to back up your suggestion.

It sounded to me like he was being prompted to install DX. As you yourself point out Civ4 requires files included in the normal runtime distribution, and this is why he was being prompted. Yes?

No. CivIV wants to push the install which it claims is DirectX 9.0c even when DirectX 9.0c runtime is already installed, because it doesn't need only "files included in the normal runtime distribution". It does this because it needs files NOT included in the normal runtime distribution.

Terminating the DX update prematurely may have corrupted some files leading to his video problems, e.g

No it may have not. The installer doesn't start installing files and in the middle of doing that check if the user wants to corrupt his files by stopping cold in the middle of overwriting files. By suggesting it does this, you're claiming it to be probably the most negligent or downright malicious installer ever. InstallShield doesn't work like that, if it did, they would have gone under years ago.

Oh and you seem to have forgotten also, that he is not having "video problems", his Windows fails to boot with CivIV installed.

Basically I was trying to succinctly tell the OP to RTFM with out coming off sounding like a know-it-all jerk. You knows those kind of guys, right Anky?

Someone suggesting that he LIED when he wrote that he tried first with following the suggested install method and got the problem, then tried again by not doing the extra step, sounds like an ESP capable "know-it-all".

To the Original Poster: Try letting the DX update proceed. Not saying it will fix all Civ4's problems (I was not prompted to install any DX files for my install and my Civ4 still runs like crap), but give it a shot.

Not worth a shot dsg, if you didn't lie about the order of things.

 

[Turambar]

Edited for flaming.

 

[Turambar]

Not worth a shot dsf, if you didn't lie about the order of things.

You may disagree with my diagnosis and it may turn out to be wrong, but to tell a guy to not even try a simple process that would take 5 minutes, a process indicated as required by the manufacturer themselves, well that's just stupid. He may very well have followed all instuctions to a T, but the fact remains he is still being prompted to update DX. If he is being prompted something is still missing somewhere and he needs to run it again. Give it a whirl OP, don't cost nothin'

Oh, you could have saved us both some time by just being honest yourself and admitting up front that you are just guessing along without any real information to back up your suggestion.

How is that different from what you are doing? Root Kits? Reg Keys? Maybe, but you check the simple, easy to fix things first.

No....It does this because it needs files NOT included in the normal runtime distribution.

Correct. My bad for not including the word "not", I was trying to reiterate the point you made, more files are needed by Civ4 than come with just the regular runtime dist. That is why he is being prompted, and I just pointed out the manufactirers states that prompt should not be ignored.

No it may have not. The installer doesn't start installing files and in the middle of doing that check if the user wants to corrupt his files by stopping cold in the middle of overwriting files. By suggesting it does this, you're claiming it to be probably the most negligent or downright malicious installer ever. InstallShield doesn't work like that, if it did, they would have gone under years ago.

You need some reading comprehension skills. Show me where I suggested a bad installer? I did suggest that terminating a DirectX install while it is in progress can cause problems like the ones seen here. Hell, even letting an install finish normally can have leave corrupted files that casue the exact symptioms the OP is having. I've done it myself, so have others, and if you knew half of what you think you know, then you would know that it is possible.

Someone suggesting that he LIED when he wrote that he tried first with following the suggested install method and got the problem, then tried again by not doing the extra step, sounds like an ESP capable "know-it-all".

Again, work on your reading comprehension! Show me where I suggest he lied. He may very well have followed all instuctions to a T, but the fact remains he is still being prompted to update DX. If he is being prompted something is still missing somewhere and he needs to run it again.

 

[Akhenaton]

He may very well have followed all instuctions to a T, but the fact remains he is still being prompted to update DX. If he is being prompted something is still missing somewhere and he needs to run it again.

So, how many times should he try to reinstall it then? Perhaps as many times as he can each day until the next patch is available so that he can put it in the mix?

How is that different from what you are doing? Root Kits?

I'm not working for Macrovision. I couldn't live with myself ethically if I did.

Reg Keys? Maybe, but you check the simple, easy to fix things first.

He hasn't tried my solution yet even once, has he? Maybe try a logical solution once and then the repeat rinse procedure for 10 times, eh?

You need some reading comprehension skills. Show me where I suggested a bad installer?

You are complaining about my reading comprehension and then asking me to show, where I showed, where you suggested a very very bad installer. So there:

Terminating the DX update prematurely may have corrupted some files leading to his video problems, e.g

No it may have not. The installer doesn't start installing files and in the middle of doing that check if the user wants to corrupt his files by stopping cold in the middle of overwriting files.

I did suggest that terminating a DirectX install while it is in progress can cause problems like the ones seen here.

Yes you did, but it's next to impossible for the very reason that such a bad installer would be among the top 5 problems encountered. And Macrovision (which also owns InstallShield) doesn't make installers do stupid things just for one game, they design them in generational versions like normal software. Your claim is so extraordinary that it would require concrete proof to be even considered.

Hell, even letting an install finish normally can have leave corrupted files that casue the exact symptioms the OP is having.

Exact symptoms of Windows not booting? Name a DX9 component which is required for a boot process up until loading winlogon and firing up the explorer? Didn't think you could...

He may very well have followed all instuctions to a T, but the fact remains he is still being prompted to update DX. If he is being prompted something is still missing somewhere and he needs to run it again.

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension. He had to backtrack from the installation through system restore. It removed anything CivIV tried to install. It will continue to do this every time the exact same install steps are attempted. The only possible solutions are to do something more than what was done in previous attemps, one of which is to troubleshoot the component that CivIV installer ****s up in the machine. The only one I know with this capability is the SafeDisc driver, which is the only bit of code that CivIV sets to run at boot up, before the user has a change to try to launch the game, or reinstall it and "DX9.0c" the upteeth time! There may be other bits which I'm not aware, but they have to be something which is needed for booting the OS. DX is not one of them.

I'm obviously not going to get anywhere in trying to explain this to you Turambar, but you are not having the problem, so you are pretty much irrelevant to this discussion. If you still have something to write to me about this, do it in PM, this is just going to confuse dsg or anyone reading the thread with a similar problem.

 

[Zanmato]

Well getting back to the issue in hand....

Might be a long shot, but try looking at the Event Manager in the Admin tools for Windows. That might tell you the specific app, hardware, driver or file that is causing the error with the bootup.

It sounds like to me that Civ4 installer CD is intent on installing it's own DX version (v9.0) regardless of if the one already installed is newer (v9.0c). Perhaps a critical DX file is missing or something like that. The fact that it successfully boots up in safe mode points to a dodgy driver or a software conflict problem.

 

[dsg]

Hi all,

I've been a bit busy, so I haven't gotten around to posting again until now. Seems this thread has been lit aflame.

Anyway, I ended up installing Windows 2000 on the machine (I always liked it better anyway), and it works like a charm now. I'm still not sure what was causing the problem, but I had tried letting the installer install the DX9 SDK. I hadn't tried the registry keys that were posted, but I had removed the SafeDisc4 driver from the device manager (I forgot what it was called), to no avail.

Anyway, thanks to all who replied, though hopefully the next person to have this problem will find a better solution than a windows downgrade.

-dsg

 

[Turambar]

Well, glad you got it working. Akhenaton and I traded PM's and made up. Also made a small wager, if he was right I send him a dollar, if I was right he would send me a Euro....I gather from your post that I was not correct , but your solution robs us of the chance to know if he was right