Wonder Elimination Thread

[civnoob13]

AAAAND WE HAVE A WINNER! Hagia Sophia is the forum's favourite wonder!

27th: Angkor Wat
26th: Brandenburg Gate
25th: Great Lighthouse
24th: Cristo Redentor
23rd: Kremlin
22nd: Pentagon
21st: Pyramids
20th: Stonehenge
19th: Colossus
18th: The Louvre
17th: Taj Mahal
16th: Himeji Castle
15th: Big Ben
14th: Great Wall
13th: Sydney Opera House
12th: Machu Picchu
11th: The Forbidden Palace
10th: Sistine Chapel
9th: Porcelain Tower
8th: Statue of Liberty
7th: The Eiffel Tower
6th: Chichen Itza
5th: Notre Dame
4th: Great Library
3rd: The Hanging Gardens
2nd: The Oracle
1st: Hagia Sophia

Link to video.

 

[civnoob13]

Angkor Wat (10) -2
Big Ben (12)
Brandenburg Gate (12)
Chichen Itza (12)
Cristo Redentor (12)
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (13) +1
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (12)
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (12)
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (12)
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (12)
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (12)
Great Lighthouse (12)
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (12)
Hanging Gardens (12)
Kremlin (12)
Louvre (12)
Oracle (12)
Porcelain Tower (12)
Pyramids (12)
United Nations (12)

The Himeji castle is simply fantastic when on the defence. When combined with the great wall and oligarichy, you have a civ that is very hard to take over even if you just have good garrisons. Although the combat bonus was nerfed in the patch, we have the slight compensation of the free castle, which saves 2GPT and gives you extra happiness if you go down the honour tree.

Angkor Wat is pretty useless for me. By the Medieval era, I usually will have founded all my cities, which are already well expanded. Even if it was an earlier wonder, and even if I would ever waste the hammers for it, I still never really feel the need that my city needs to be expanding faster. The vast majority of the time, I can simply buy the important tiles. I'd rather be at most a few hundred gold down then waste so many hammers.

 

[noncognosco]

Angkor Wat (10)
Big Ben (12)
Brandenburg Gate (10) -2
Chichen Itza (12)
Cristo Redentor (12)
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (13)
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (12)
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (12)
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (12)
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (12)
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (13) +1
Great Lighthouse (12)
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (12)
Hanging Gardens (12)
Kremlin (12)
Louvre (12)
Oracle (12)
Porcelain Tower (12)
Pyramids (12)
United Nations (12)


Great Library was always a great wonder, but the last patch just buffed it up even more. Seriously, a free technology plus a Great Scientist point, plus a library with no maintanence cost.

As for Brandenburg Gate, it is useless. By the time it shows up anyone who has fought basically any wars at all will already have as many generals as they need. You can burn it for a Golden Age I guess but still: pretty lame.

 

[Hakizo]

Angkor Wat (8)-2
Big Ben (12)
Brandenburg Gate (10)
Chichen Itza (12)
Cristo Redentor (12)
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (12)
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (12)
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (12)
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (13)+1
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (12)
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (13)
Great Lighthouse (12)
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (12)
Hanging Gardens (12)
Kremlin (12)
Louvre (12)
Oracle (12)
Porcelain Tower (12)
Pyramids (12)
United Nations (12)

Considering I usually take Tradition, Angkor Wat is useless for me.

Opera House has gotten a big improvement in the last patch. 1 Free SP and +50% Culture is Great! Plus You can easily Beeline to it Going Electricity>Radio>Mass Media, and you don't go through out of the way techs, considering Radio unlocks Broadcast Towers!

I could of voted for Porcelain Tower, maybe tomorrow.

 

[mrlovanhey]

Angkor Wat (6) -2
Big Ben (12)
Brandenburg Gate (10)
Chichen Itza (12)
Cristo Redentor (12)
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (12)
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (12)
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (12)
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (13)
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (12)
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (14) +1
Great Lighthouse (12)
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (12)
Hanging Gardens (12)
Kremlin (12)
Louvre (12)
Oracle (12)
Porcelain Tower (12)
Pyramids (12)
United Nations (12)


The Library is now the wonder I go for right from the start. It's just great. Scientist points, a free tech and a free library. It offers a tremendous start.

The Angkor Wat is kinda meh, some extra city border growth and a few GP points. Not really worth the hammers in my opinion.

 

[Becephalus]

Angkor Wat (4) -2
Big Ben (12)
Brandenburg Gate (10)
Chichen Itza (12)
Cristo Redentor (12)
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (12)
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (12)
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (12)
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (13)
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (12)
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (14)
Great Lighthouse (12)
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (12)
Hanging Gardens (12)
Kremlin (12)
Louvre (12)
Oracle (13)+1
Porcelain Tower (12)
Pyramids (12)
United Nations (12)

I agree Angkor is very weak, by the time I have it my borders are pretty much expanded on my core cities, and conquered cities come with their old borders. I could see it being useful in a New World scenario, but I don't play those as the AI is quite bad at them.

The oracle is pretty strong for obvious reasons. It is frequently my first choice among the old ones if it fits in with the flow of my game (I role-play a lot).

 

[marioflag]

Angkor Wat (4)
Big Ben (12)
Brandenburg Gate (8) -2
Chichen Itza (12)
Cristo Redentor (12)
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (12)
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (12)
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (12)
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (13)
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (12)
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (15) +1
Great Lighthouse (12)
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (12)
Hanging Gardens (12)
Kremlin (12)
Louvre (12)
Oracle (13)
Porcelain Tower (12)
Pyramids (12)
United Nations (12)

The Great Library is just too good like the previous poster said and offers a great start.
Brandeburg Gate seems to me the worst wonder, it offers just a Great General which can be achieved easily through battle, also needs to be implemented differently because its bonus is quite boring.

 

[fmlizard2]

Angkor Wat (4)
Big Ben (12)
Brandenburg Gate (8)
Chichen Itza (13) +1
Cristo Redentor (10) -2
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (12)
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (12)
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (12)
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (13)
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (12)
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (15)
Great Lighthouse (12)
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (12)
Hanging Gardens (12)
Kremlin (12)
Louvre (12)
Oracle (13)
Porcelain Tower (12)
Pyramids (12)
United Nations (12)

Chichen Itza was the best wonder before, and +4 sure didn't change that one bit. The Hagia Sophia (also excellent) - Free Great Engineer - Free Chichen Itza strat is a favorite from the new patch.

Cristo Redentor was nerfed in a fashion that blows my mind. -10% policy costs at the late stage of the game when you get it means that you net out at maybe a free 1/2 of a policy, if you are lucky. Just awful now. Bring back the -25% or move it way, way up (though that would be chronologically inaccurate)

 

[Tabarnak]

Angkor Wat (2)
Big Ben (12)
Brandenburg Gate (8)
Chichen Itza (13)
Cristo Redentor (10)
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (12)
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (12)
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (12)
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (13)
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (12)
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (15)
Great Lighthouse (12)
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (13)
Hanging Gardens (12)
Kremlin (12)
Louvre (12)
Oracle (13)
Porcelain Tower (12)
Pyramids (12)
United Nations (12)

Angkor Wat is the least powerful and useful wonder imo. Their bonuses are lame. However, HG is a free Liberty finisher for free plus 25% GP growth rate? And come fairly soon in the tech tree? In mp this wonder rocks to rush a superior military tech. You can even get ND or PT for free! Awesome!

 

[Calouste]

Angkor Wat (2)
Big Ben (12)
Brandenburg Gate (6) -2
Chichen Itza (13)
Cristo Redentor (10)
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (12)
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (13) + 1
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (12)
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (13)
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (12)
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (15)
Great Lighthouse (12)
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (13)
Hanging Gardens (12)
Kremlin (12)
Louvre (12)
Oracle (13)
Porcelain Tower (12)
Pyramids (12)
United Nations (12)

Brandenburg Gate is strictly worse, and by a significant margin, than a wonder that comes an era earlier. Notre Dame's +10 happy is very good at that point in time, where you have hooked up all the luxuries and build Collosseums.

 

[insaneweasel]

Angkor Wat (2)
Big Ben (12)
Brandenburg Gate (4) -2
Chichen Itza (13)
Cristo Redentor (10)
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (12)
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (13)
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (13) +1
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (13)
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (12)
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (15)
Great Lighthouse (12)
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (13)
Hanging Gardens (12)
Kremlin (12)
Louvre (12)
Oracle (13)
Porcelain Tower (12)
Pyramids (12)
United Nations (12)

The gate is a crappy and unoriginal wonder. Warmongers don't need it, peaceful people don't need it. It requires an overhall.

SoL is great for empires with freedom-you will probably be using a bunch of specialists, and this can net 5-10 hammers per city, for a lot of cities.

 

[Poomermon]

Angkor Wat (2)
Big Ben (12)
Brandenburg Gate (2) -2
Chichen Itza (13)
Cristo Redentor (10)
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (12)
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (13)
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (13)
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (13)
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (12)
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (15)
Great Lighthouse (12)
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (13) + 1
Hanging Gardens (12)
Kremlin (12)
Louvre (12)
Oracle (13)
Porcelain Tower (12)
Pyramids (12)
United Nations (12)

Branderburg gate needs a major boost for such a late game wonder. Extra culture, great scientist points or great general are quite useless at that stage of game. I guess you can get a golden age out of the general but as said the wonder is quite uninspiring as it is.

Hagia sophia I don't see AI going for this wonder that often and you get a free great engineer to immediately score another more expensive wonder like porcelain tower or notre dame. Also free extra gardens for every city is a nice bonus.

 

[Hakizo]

And the first gone is...

Spoiler :

Angkor Wat (0)-2
Big Ben (12)
Brandenburg Gate (2) -2
Chichen Itza (13)
Cristo Redentor (10)
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (12)
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (13)
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (13)
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (13)
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (12)
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (15)
Great Lighthouse (12)
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (13) + 1
Hanging Gardens (12)
Kremlin (12)
Louvre (12)
Oracle (13)
Porcelain Tower (13)+1
Pyramids (12)
United Nations (12)
When it comes between Angkor and BG, at least you can pop the great general for a golden age.
Porcelain Tower offers such an immense boost to science, greater than any other *science* wonder

 

[Becephalus]

Angkor Wat (0)
Big Ben (12)
Brandenburg Gate (0) -2
Chichen Itza (13)
Cristo Redentor (10)
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (12)
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (13)
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (13)
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (13)
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (13) +1
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (15)
Great Lighthouse (12)
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (13)
Hanging Gardens (12)
Kremlin (12)
Louvre (12)
Oracle (13)
Porcelain Tower (13)
Pyramids (12)
United Nations (12)

Brandenberg Gate: Eliminated (This Wonder simply is not that exciting compared to its competitors. by this point in the game it is basically a 5 turn golden age, la-di-da)
Colossus: +1 (Not a lot of competition for this wonder usually, and it is hard to overestimate the value of all that gold over the course of the game. An underrated early wonder.)

 

[Kevin J]

Big Ben (12)
Chichen Itza (13)
Cristo Redentor (10)
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (12)
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (13)
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (13)
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (13)
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (11)
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (15)
Great Lighthouse (12)
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (13)
Hanging Gardens (13)
Kremlin (12)
Louvre (12)
Oracle (13)
Porcelain Tower (13)
Pyramids (12)
United Nations (12)

The colossus remains underwhelming, though I do recognize it being situationally useful for a water heavy start. The new Hanging Gardens with its +10 food helped me get my first Deity win post patch - really sets up a powerhouse city. If it were easier to obtain, I'd vote for the Great Library, but it's exceptionally hard to get on Deity.

 

[civnoob13]

Big Ben (12)
Chichen Itza (13)
Cristo Redentor (10)
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (12)
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (13)
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (13)
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (13)
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (11)
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (15)
Great Lighthouse (12)
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (14) +1
Hanging Gardens (13)
Kremlin (10) -2
Louvre (12)
Oracle (13)
Porcelain Tower (13)
Pyramids (12)
United Nations (12)

Hagia Sophia is practically a free wonder (great engineer) and therefore is better than any other single wonder; it is the most useful wonder for literally any win because you can use it to build the wonder specifically required in that game. This would be great in itself but the +25% GP bonus just sweetens the deal.

Kremlin gives a small boost to buildings I rarely build as it is. Meh.

 

[FaceUnderMask]

Big Ben (12)
Chichen Itza (13)
Cristo Redentor (10)
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (12)
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (14) +1
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (13)
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (13)
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (11)
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (15)
Great Lighthouse (12)
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (14)
Hanging Gardens (13)
Kremlin (10)
Louvre (12)
Oracle (13)
Porcelain Tower (13)
Pyramids (12)
United Nations (10)

It's hard to choose best one when it depends so much on the way you choose to play. Especially that GL, PT and HS became so good after recent patch.
I'll bet on Notre Dame, since there're nothing better for a medium-sized empire than additional happiness in the late medieval.
The worst is UN since it gives nothing other than +1 culture for 1500 hammers. Seriously, why it even on the list?

 

[civnoob13]

The worst is UN since it gives nothing other than +1 culture for 1500 hammers. Seriously, why it even on the list?

Because I forgot to take it off. I have now. You can of course choose another wonder to nerf. BTW, thanks for correcting that for me, I've changed it now.

Big Ben (12)
Chichen Itza (13)
Cristo Redentor (10)
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (12)
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (14)
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (13)
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (13)
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (11)
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (15)
Great Lighthouse (12)
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (14)
Hanging Gardens (13)
Kremlin (10)
Louvre (12)
Oracle (13)
Porcelain Tower (13)
Pyramids (12)

 

[MadDjinn]

Big Ben (12)
Chichen Itza (13)
Cristo Redentor (10)
Eiffel Tower (12)
Himeji Castle (12)
Machu Picchu (12)
Notre Dame (14)
Pentagon (12)
Sistine Chapel (12)
Statue of Liberty (13)
Stonehenge (12)
Sydney Opera House (13)
Taj Mahal (12)
Colossus (11)
Forbidden Palace (12)
Great Library (15)
Great Lighthouse (10) -2
Great Wall (12)
Hagia Sophia (14)
Hanging Gardens (13)
Kremlin (10)
Louvre (12)
Oracle (13)
Porcelain Tower (14) +1
Pyramids (12)

PT - Free GS and 2 GS points and being the only civ to attain 100% RA beakers? yes please.

the Great Lighthouse... it's 'ok' but rarely do I need yet another movement/sight point on my navy. I can get that in Commerce!

 

[Calouste]

the Great Lighthouse... it's 'ok' but rarely do I need yet another movement/sight point on my navy. I can get that in Commerce!

Great Lighthouse comes a lot earlier. Still, possibly the main benefit at the moment is that you can get a lighthouse without having to research Optics, which allows you to research Mining/Animal Husbandry/Writing instead. Great Lighthouse would be a lot more interesting if it also gave +1 movement to embarked units.

It is not a bad baseline to compare wonders to more or less contemporary policies though. Big Ben is pretty rubbish for example because you get only 60% of a contemporary policy with some spare change thrown in.