Wonder Ideas for C2C

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Something like this?

Maybe but I think it was done in just XML. At one time if you had a limit of not (-1 or 1) eg 3 then you could build that building as often as you liked but only the last three existed earlier ones were removed. With National Wonders this was a bug which was fixed since you only want a maximum of 3 and don't need to build more. However I don't know if the fix went in to the Great Wonders also or whether the old way stayed.

 

[Vokarya]

OK, so far I have added over three dozen Wonders to C2C. I also have another two dozen or so ideas that I am sitting on and would really like to get out of my head and into the mod.

Would anyone have a major problem with me adding "skeleton" wonders to the mod? These would be Wonders where the building requirements are all in place, as are the Culture and Great Person points, but there is some effect that I want to add and that the XML code is not capable of at this point. The wonders in question would probably wind up with some small effects that are ancillary to the main effect.

Here's an example: I have been sitting on Ellis Island for a while. The effect that I want is that it provides all Native Cultures. (It doesn't come around until Steam Power, and the non-punk Cultures are almost all Renaissance or earlier, but it will give you a chance to build Cultures that no one else has grabbed yet.) Unfortunately, XML only allows one free building given out per building. Theoretically, I could do the other cultures in Python, but I'd rather have XML because it will be more robust and will respond properly to capture and civic changes. Ellis Island will be tied to the Open Borders civic. So what I would like to do is add the skeleton Ellis Island that provides Culture (European), and then eventually we can add an <ExtraFreeBuilding> XML tag that allows me to add the other cultures.

What do you think? Of course, I won't do anything until after the release of v26.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I don't mind putting in buildings you intend to flesh out further down the road, personally anyhow.

But I can warn that your proposed wonder, while making sense, could cause a future project of mine a great deal of problems (or vice versa.) Of course, its not right on the horizon anyhow so maybe not so big a deal for now.

 

[Faustmouse]

1) Isn't it possible to create a new building that grants you all native cultures or that gives you a new culture-ressource like "Cultural diversity" and then change the things you need to build the cultures to, for example "Pig near city AND Forest near city AND [Native Culture European OR Cultural diversity]" ?

2) And I am not sure if this is the right threat for this, but I would really like if all (or most) "build 50% faster with ressource X" would be changed into "requires ressource X". That would make wonders harder to get, even for the techleader and trading more important. And it is also strange that you need "Stone" to build stonehuts, but you don't need it to build the Pyramides We have enough ressources to deal with that I think, especially if you make some OR choices: "Requires Stone OR Bricks OR Marble" etc

3) Last but not least, I really liked the idea of LumenAngel in the Alliance threat to have some modern Wonders that are build with Commerce, like Settlers are build with food.

 

[Nimek]

+1 for idea to make some resources required to build wonders

 

[Vokarya]

I don't mind putting in buildings you intend to flesh out further down the road, personally anyhow.

But I can warn that your proposed wonder, while making sense, could cause a future project of mine a great deal of problems (or vice versa.) Of course, its not right on the horizon anyhow so maybe not so big a deal for now.

We can always rewrite Wonder abilities later -- giving Ellis Island an ability related to immigration would also fit. I just feel Ellis Island is iconic enough that it should be represented, and we don't have civic buildings for the border civics yet.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

OK, so far I have added over three dozen Wonders to C2C. I also have another two dozen or so ideas that I am sitting on and would really like to get out of my head and into the mod.

Would anyone have a major problem with me adding "skeleton" wonders to the mod? These would be Wonders where the building requirements are all in place, as are the Culture and Great Person points, but there is some effect that I want to add and that the XML code is not capable of at this point. The wonders in question would probably wind up with some small effects that are ancillary to the main effect.

Here's an example: I have been sitting on Ellis Island for a while. The effect that I want is that it provides all Native Cultures. (It doesn't come around until Steam Power, and the non-punk Cultures are almost all Renaissance or earlier, but it will give you a chance to build Cultures that no one else has grabbed yet.) Unfortunately, XML only allows one free building given out per building. Theoretically, I could do the other cultures in Python, but I'd rather have XML because it will be more robust and will respond properly to capture and civic changes. Ellis Island will be tied to the Open Borders civic. So what I would like to do is add the skeleton Ellis Island that provides Culture (European), and then eventually we can add an <ExtraFreeBuilding> XML tag that allows me to add the other cultures.

What do you think? Of course, I won't do anything until after the release of v26.

1) Isn't it possible to create a new building that grants you all native cultures or that gives you a new culture-ressource like "Cultural diversity" and then change the things you need to build the cultures to, for example "Pig near city AND Forest near city AND [Native Culture European OR Cultural diversity]" ?

I am assuming that you mean the basic cultures here "Africa" "Asia" etc. If so, I am about 1/4 to 1/3 way through changing Tsentom1's "Topkapi Palace" wonder to give you the base cultures of your vassals. I am a bit side tracked (Real Life) at the moment so probably wont get to it until November.

 

[Vokarya]

I am assuming that you mean the basic cultures here "Africa" "Asia" etc. If so, I am about 1/4 to 1/3 way through changing Tsentom1's "Topkapi Palace" wonder to give you the base cultures of your vassals. I am a bit side tracked (Real Life) at the moment so probably wont get to it until November.

That would be cool. Ellis Island won't come around until the Industrial Era, so the two should fit together nicely. Let me know how you wind up coding the change. What I want should be possible with just a new XML tag. It's only that you can't put more than one free building on any building that's stopping me from adding Ellis Island right now.

 

[Nimek]

It is obvious that government has a entir grid of underground secret military bases hat are connected by undergrounds tunnel so idea

Secret military bases grid - national wonder
- Requires 6 secret military bases
- connects all secret military bases by underground tunnels
- can move military units from base to base by tunels (1 per turn)

SO after building of that wonder even if your city lost connections to the trade route by land/water but it will have secret military base it still have the resources.

 

[Taxman66]

Has anyone considered natural wonders? Obviously they would be more like Terrain features than buildable wonders, but such things as:
Natural Perfect Harbor
Crater Basin
Luxurious Beach
Geological curriosities

******************

How about negative wonders, brought about by certain actions:
e.g. Rape of Nanking

 

[ls612]

Has anyone considered natural wonders? Obviously they would be more like Terrain features than buildable wonders, but such things as:
Natural Perfect Harbor
Crater Basin
Luxurious Beach
Geological curriosities

******************

How about negative wonders, brought about by certain actions:
e.g. Rape of Nanking

1. Yes, DH is currently working on those, who knows if his comp will cooperate and allow them to get into V27, but at least he's working on them

2. That would seem better as an event than as a wonder.

 

[Vokarya]

Here is the first skeleton Wonder that I am going to put on the SVN once v26 is released. Skeleton Wonders are working, but I want to give them an ability that needs an XML tag that is not currently implemented.

Aachen Cathedral was built by Charlemagne and consecrated by Pope Leo III. I want it to represent the end of the turmoil in western Europe following the collapse of the western Roman Empire. It has a couple of minor abilities right now: +10 national stability per turn, +8 culture, +2 GPP for Great Prophets. It also actually only has a base cost of 600; the 3000 hammer cost is a test where I am playing on Snail speed and Deity difficulty.

View attachment 330495View attachment 330496

What's missing:

• +1 happiness in all cities with State Religion
• Revolutions only: +250 one-time stability bonus in all cities on completion

The second ability is the real key. To represent the birth of some kind of stability in Europe, Aachen Cathedral gives a large one-time bonus to stability on completion. This would be very similar to the stability changes on changing civics, but I don't think there is a tag for that right now for buildings.

The first ability is another tag that I have already requested on the Tag Requests thread. The only tag tying religion to happiness is <iStateReligionHappiness>, but that only affects happiness in that city and only works with a building that requires a specific religion. This is the tag used to control the happiness bonus on Temples. I don't want to upset the religion-balance in any way, but I do want this building to be tied to having any state religion. Many medieval wonders feel to me that they should be tied to having some state religion. The tag I want would grant +X (in this case, X = 1) happiness to all your cities that have your state religion.

 

[Nimek]

@Vokarya - this stability bonus should work only when you have state - when the people are not religious they dont care about churches or any religion stuff

 

[rightfuture]

@ls612 and those interested
I see areas of natural resources and landmarks as being interesting discoverable events.
I think they should both be handled as events and wonder-like landmarks, having influence and giving bonuses.

I love how they were implemented in the old game 7 Cities of Gold. (I've only said this 5x)
The Seven Cities of Gold
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Cities_of_Gold_(video_game)

http://www.mobygames.com/game/seven-cities-of-gold/screenshots

Interesting event quotes:
"You have discovered the mouth of a medium river"
"You found a gold mine!"
"Sir, we have discovered a lost city."
"We may take what we want as tribute!"


Interesting quick insight from creator, could we use disk caching to switch multi-maps around in memory? Circa 1984
http://markus.brenner.de/ea/7cities.html

user manual
http://www.c64sets.com/seven_cities_of_gold.html

In 1984 they had random mapscripts with plates tectonic generation and resource placement, disk caching for memory management, random generation of content on the go, weather, seasons, a moderately complex (and fun) trade system (only 4 resources), a pretty good grasp on the fun of exploration. (it truly inspired Sid Meier's Colonization.)

Some people want to see it and Colonization done right, I see no reason not to make C2C into it.
http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topi...d-you-love-to-see-as-a-re-do?msg_id=336903999
I would love to see C2C expand with more Exploration ideas and capture that spirit of Exploration!
Exciting Events, Weather, More Discovery, and More Living/Breathing World elements like the existing subdued animals would make C2C explode with life and fun! (a little goes a long way! see SimCity for proof!)

 

[LumenAngel]

2. That would seem better as an event than as a wonder.

We already have event-like wonder : Magellan's Voyage, Pearl harbor (you only know this base because of the attack...)
Or some even stranger, like Silk Road or Rock'n Roll.

But another idea would be event giving a special Wonder/building. Positive or not. A Justice League tied to a crime event, 221b Baker Street can be tied to an espionage/crime event, Genocide tied with an Indigene event, Magellan's voyage only buildabke by the civ who prove than Earth is spherical (and a second bonus is you prove Earth is toroidal in toroidal map ^^)...

 

[Vokarya]

@Vokarya - this stability bonus should work only when you have state - when the people are not religious they dont care about churches or any religion stuff

That would probably require another XML tag, and I think two new tags is enough. I'm thinking also of cutting the stability bonus back to +5 per turn, and consider that enough for a "national symbol" wonder. Aachen Cathedral will go obsolete at Nationalism, so it doesn't last that long (from the early Medieval to the late Renaissance). Unless you have Shwedagon Paya, you can't switch to Secular until the mid-Renaissance, and I don't know if it is ever a good idea to switch to No State Religion when you have any other option (and you have to have at least one to even build Aachen Cathedral).

 

[Vokarya]

So here's the second skeleton Wonder: Bank of China Tower. I actually have a building model for this one. It has two secondary abilities, +5 gold from all Banks and +50% trade route income. The big ability that is missing is a reduction in corporation maintenance.

View attachment 330862View attachment 330863

What's missing:

• -50% maintenance cost for Corporations in all cities

This would probably be a temporary ability until we go back and really re-work Corporations, but I want something that helps Corporations. Much like a lot of Medieval Era Wonders are religious, I think we should have a lot of corporate Modern Era Wonders. What do you think of this one?

 

[ls612]

So here's the second skeleton Wonder: Bank of China Tower. I actually have a building model for this one. It has two secondary abilities, +5 gold from all Banks and +50% trade route income. The big ability that is missing is a reduction in corporation maintenance.

View attachment 330862View attachment 330863

What's missing:



This would probably be a temporary ability until we go back and really re-work Corporations, but I want something that helps Corporations. Much like a lot of Medieval Era Wonders are religious, I think we should have a lot of corporate Modern Era Wonders. What do you think of this one?

-50 seems like a bit too much to me, but -30% or so would be balanced in my mind.

 

[Nimek]

@vokraya

Remember when you adding bonuses to all cities that player can have even 100 cities and we have a lot of complaining (from me as ex ) that is to easy to win with big empire. So make this bonuses as low as possible -25% is enought

 

[Vokarya]

@vokraya

Remember when you adding bonuses to all cities that player can have even 100 cities and we have a lot of complaining (from me as ex ) that is to easy to win with big empire. So make this bonuses as low as possible -25% is enought

Sounds fair. 25% it will be, once the tag is implemented.