Work boat before first worker

[morchuflex]

Hello.

When playing a tribe that starts with the knowledge of fishing, is it worth "hooking" seafood before even building a worker? Has anyone tested this strategy?
If you have a forested plain hill in the vicinity, you can build a workboat in 8 turns (on normal). Then, you can start a worker and complete it rather quickly, especially if you have a fish to "hook". Unless your leader has a discount on workers (expansive trait), it may provide a faster development than building a worker, then chopping a workboat. Especially if you have no task for your worker before the discovery of BW.

Suggestions?

 

[hvevo]

Building a work boat doesn't hinder your capital's growth, so yes, I always tend to build a work boat before the first worker.

 

[ABigCivFan]

Yes, it is a good idea to hood up fish before building 1st worker. Many people do it.

1. Coast fish gives 5+2 = 7 net output, that is often the best possible early tiles(besides riverside cow/pig/corn) to work.

2. Your city grows while building FB

3. After hooking up fish, you can FOOD build your 1st worker Much faster.

4. The extra commerce seafood tiles give speed up your research a bit.

 

[Welnic]

I think that it is worthwhile to time building the work boat with having your city grow to pop 2. You should take advantage of the fact that you can still grow while building it.

 

[gettingfat]

I still think it depends. If you see enough forests and preferrably a couple of resources, start with mining, I always go for worker first and research BW at the same time, then use the worker to chop the boat. With the fishing resources the city will grow awfully quick from pop 1 to pop 3 (build a warrior or scout at that point with the worker either chopping or improving tiles), then chop/whip the settler. Research pottery quick so you can build granery to take advantage of the high food input. I have no exact data, but I find it better than quietly waiting for your one food 2 hammer tiles to slowly prepare your little boat.

 

[uberfish]

OP: yes, it's a good strategy - working the forest plains hill at the start is the fastest way to begin working an improved tile

 

[volfan37132]

Yes, If I start with fishing and I have seafood in my big fat cross
via a coastal city. I build a work boat first. I think the extra
and make it worthwhile.

 

[dozenlong]

I build a work boat first too. I like how much faster the worker gets created..especially if there is nothing the worker can do when it would have been created.

 

[6K Man]

If I have seafood and start with Sailing, I'll always build a workboat first. That makes the worker build that little bit faster with the 4 tile, plus your commerce gets a small boost from working Coast.

Otherwise, I am a convert to worker first, unless there is literally nothing for the worker to improve.

 

[popejubal]

If you start with Fishing and Mining, there is an especially nice start.

Research Bronze Working and build a boat at the beginning. Once Bronze Working is finished, you can whip population. Once the Boat finishes, either send it exploring or use it to work some fish. You are now at population 2 or 3. Get a worker started and whip that excess population into a worker. The worker can chop trees to make another worker and then these two can either improve tiles or chop out a settler.

Add in warriors as needed for defense and you're all set.

The nice thing about this strategy is that the city is growing in size while you build the boat and then the city size turns into a worker when you whip, so you sort-of get the worker for "free". If you can't get Bronze Working easily, then this is less attractive since you'll have to wait such a long time for your worker to come online.

 

[Elrohir]

If you start with fishing, and there is a seafood tile in your capitol's fat cross, you should always build a work board before a worker.

 

[uberfish]

growing city to size 2 unimproved just increases city productivity to 4 (food+hammers)

at size 1 with seafood you get 4-5 (food+hammers) plus 2 commerce, extra if financial

so it's better to get the boat out ASAP and then build the worker at size 1 in most cases

 

[JimT]

I still think it depends. If you see enough forests and preferrably a couple of resources, start with mining, I always go for worker first and research BW at the same time, then use the worker to chop the boat. With the fishing resources the city will grow awfully quick from pop 1 to pop 3 (build a warrior or scout at that point with the worker either chopping or improving tiles), then chop/whip the settler. Research pottery quick so you can build granery to take advantage of the high food input. I have no exact data, but I find it better than quietly waiting for your one food 2 hammer tiles to slowly prepare your little boat.

Disagree as you will generally build a boat in about the time it takes to build a worker. You also get an extra pop or two. Chopping a workboat has an opportunity cost (lost forest for chopping later). The extra food will speed up the worker. The extra commerce will speed up the research of mining and bronze working anyway.

 

[IAM]

Not only do I build a work boat first in the given situation but have often built two first if I have 2 wet resources in my fat cross. Even when I have good resources for a worker to hook up I usually go for the quicker boat action.

"When I come back no more Mr. Nice Guy." Adolf Hitler

 

[morchuflex]

growing city to size 2 unimproved just increases city productivity to 4 (food+hammers)

at size 1 with seafood you get 4-5 (food+hammers) plus 2 commerce, extra if financial

so it's better to get the boat out ASAP and then build the worker at size 1 in most cases

That's my feeling too. Don't use the fish to grow now, because the extra citizens would work unimproved tiles, which generally have a poor yield. Use it to quickly create a worker or, better, two: while the second worker is being built, the first builds the mines your extra citizens will be happy to work.

Furthermore, the "workboat first" strategy is a clear winner if you have a fish resource, but if all you have is crab or clam, then it is about on par with "worker first".

Of course, all this is highly situational. It depends a lot on the quality of the surrounding tiles, on wether or not you are expansive, etc.

 

[oyzar]

anyone actually done the math on this, assuming clams? what about 2H 1F 1H 2F etc? when is it worthwhile to build the workboat and when to delay it? what if you don't start with fishing? I want numbers not feelings...assuming the early goals are one worker one workboat one settler and size 2 how do you acomplish this fastest?

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

anyone actually done the math on this, assuming clams? what about 2H 1F 1H 2F etc? when is it worthwhile to build the workboat and when to delay it? what if you don't start with fishing? I want numbers not feelings...assuming the early goals are one worker one workboat one settler and size 2 how do you acomplish this fastest?

Some of the math is here.

I believe the right analysis is to start with a specific map, a specific pair of opening techs AND research plan, come up with a model, then see how the results of the model change when you alter the conditions.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Offered as an example for consideration. I hadn't realized that half of the leaders that start with Fishing also start with Mining.

 

[Defiant47]

If you have mostly food tiles and at best production a forested grassland, it may be more worthwhile to build a worker (assuming you have some kinds of useful land resources). The idea is to improve the tiles ASAP, and with a worker you can devote 2F as well as the 1P, whereas with the workboat you can only devote 1P, and it would take a very long time.