World of Temujin (The Khan Days)

[KingKHAN]

It seems incredible when I read at what age Mongol boys were taught to ride a horse and shoot a bow.

Agreed. They were quite skilled in their Archery on their Horses, that's one of the reasons they were so deadly, this had been rarely attempted in those times (and the ancient times before it). Nobody was really ready for that, the typical army formation (Including the Egyptians at the height of their empire(one of the longest empires to conquer) and the Roman Empire even, their typical formation was Archers at the rear and Cavalry/Infantry in the front and we all know this does make total sense also, to defend the archers. But when the archers are on horses leading the charge? This caught many many civilizations off-guard. The only others I believe in history to do such a thing were the Aboriginal Native Americans, they were also skilled horse archers. They rode a horse upside down(from the bottom of it, and still use precision archery techniques). It is amazing how deadly this form of fighting can be.

Edit: as well, the archery techniques of the Mongols is still practiced in the culture of Mongolia today.

 

[Mujadaddy]

Plenty of other Religious peoples also befriend Genghis Khan.

On pain of death

 

[KingKHAN]

On pain of death

Yeah thats true to, who'd really want to be on the opposite side of the field from the Mongols? Lol. No offense to anybody whom is really religious but, many of the civilizations conquered did infact worship a God(or gods). Yet, their God(s) really never did fight for them did they? They never struck them dead on the invasion into their land? I wouldn't want to die thinking that the Gods will fight the battles for you, when in actuality, many were proven wrong in this endeavor.

 

[Mujadaddy]

The thing about the Mongols is that, not having a written language or other amenities of "civilization," they "stole" the administrative knowledge and inspirational religious qualities from their conquered civs... keeping the mass of the people calm and happy...the survivors at any rate

 

[KingKHAN]

Yep, they were smart. Keeping culture up for their subjects, less uprisings, more praisings

 

[Vael]

They brought this upon themselves by A. Not paying tribute, and B. Desecreting Caravans, the citizens of the conquered empires were 100% supportive and did not disagree with war, they thought Temujin was merely another barbarian leader, damn were they proven wrong.

EDIT: Oh and by the way, those who paid tribute to Temujin's Empire were spared.

You think someone not paying you is a good reason to kill them? I hate to wonder what kind of job you have.

There again it wasn't done in cold blood. I don't recall reading about him wishing to create a purebred Mongol..and ordering all inferior types to be rounded up like cattle..then led away to be slaughtered.
And if you actually study the land area they spread across and the timeframe...its put into context a little.

Yeah, so people killed each other a lot back then. Doesn't make it any better, particularly when you are one of the greatest killers of all time. 30 million people back then was an extremely high percentage of the world's entire population.

Just bringing one number out does not mean anything.
Consider:
-the timespan of Mongol invasion, 2/3 generations ?
-the land that they have conquered, how many square feet or miles?
-the lives that they have spared

And now look back at the number that u provide , 30 million death u said for the above achievment.. thats a bargain

Genghis Khan the

As I said, calling 30 million deaths a 'bargain' is a bit silly, particularly when the world's total population was less than 500 million. That's in the neighborhood of 10% of the world's population. That would be about 650 million people killed today.

Temujin conquered because A) he was good at it and B) Mongol culture demanded it. The history of their people was filled with raiding and conquering one's (ethnically identical) neighbors - when he united the Mongol tribes they need to look elsewhere. His actions were necessary for Temujin to keep power, as political rule was determined by who was most successful on the battlefield. Call Temujin a great conqueror and a powerful leader, but do not belittle the devastation the Mongol invasions brought about across Asia.

 

[Mujadaddy]

Belittle it? We're celebrating it!

 

[Genghis Khan II]

Check this out. Click here. This page is not the main page but at the top of the page are links to the rest of the site.
I hapen to know som about the mongols and although they did kill oh a few million people they greatly benifited the world.

 

[Xarlak]

I'm sorry my story is a bit sketchy, but IIRC Khan was approaching Italy or Rome itself, and some saint, or maybe it was the Pope at the time, met him. Supposedly Khan decided not to attack, because he saw an army of angels with drawn swords behind whoever that person was. I wish I could recall where I read about that. I'm not sure if anyone but Khan was aware of those angels.

That was Pope Leo I, and Atilla the Hun in 452. Same culture, just 600 or so years too early.

As I said, calling 30 million deaths a 'bargain' is a bit silly, particularly when the world's total population was less than 500 million. That's in the neighborhood of 10% of the world's population. That would be about 650 million people killed today.

Temujin conquered because A) he was good at it and B) Mongol culture demanded it. The history of their people was filled with raiding and conquering one's (ethnically identical) neighbors - when he united the Mongol tribes they need to look elsewhere. His actions were necessary for Temujin to keep power, as political rule was determined by who was most successful on the battlefield. Call Temujin a great conqueror and a powerful leader, but do not belittle the devastation the Mongol invasions brought about across Asia.

No one's denying that Temujin killed a lot of people. But the argument is that his killings were culturally appropriate for warfare of the time - it was just what conquerers did. Temujin conquered more land than any other conquerer, and so his death toll was accordingly higher. To compare him with Hitler, whose killings were irrational, hate-based, and not committed during war, does him a disservice. Temujin never rounded up his own people and put him to death, nor did he round up people and have them killed just because they're of a certain race. Was he a killer? Yes. So were 90% of world leaders of his time - war was unavoidable. He just differed in scale. Hitler was a completely different situation.

 

[cckerberos]

Hell, we could all be Mongolian by now had this not happened... Think about it. They had Chinese, Europians and Middle Eastern soldiers fighting for them in exchange for their lives. You think Britain or France would have stopped them?

Possibly. The Japanese did, after all (twice.)

 

[Mujadaddy]

Eh, they had the weather help

 

[Blarg]

OMG listen to u guys. 30 million is nothing for what he did? A great leader spares ppl and still manages to conquer territories. I have read that the guy wasn't a happy one (bad childhood or something). He killed and pillaged. Lol no matter what period in time u live in a kill is a kill just because there is no one to enforce doesn't mean its justified. I read a qote somewhere that says that something like "I will kill your husband and enslave your woman (or something like that)".

I agree. This stuff in this thread is preposterous hero worship. The guy killed what, 12 million in China in a year's time? 30 million is no big deal? Gimme a break. Realize too that at the time he did that, it was effectively exponentially a larger number of people. Madrid only had about 50,000 people in it when Columbus discovered America. Now you have cities with ten million in them. When we think of 30 million now, the number should stagger us. But back then, it was fantastical. And they didn't do it with machine guns either, but up close and personal.

Genghis Khan would march his armies to cities and say surrender immediately or you'll all die. Of course, the average citizen back then had no more say what his government decided than he ever has; far less really, because democracy was even less pertinent and available than now. So whole cities got murdered after being presented with a frankly preposterous ultimatum, probably actually deliberated on by but a few people. If someone ran up out of nowhere and told you to give up everything you own and your family to slavery, or die, how reasonable would you find it?

The idea that all the people he murdered brought it on themselves is asinine.

The ideas that everyone conducted war just as he did, or that he can't be judged, are false and absurd.

People, and especially kids, need better heroes these days. And a whole lot more perspective.

 

[Mujadaddy]

Waaaahhhhnnnnnnn!

You can't argue with success.

 

[KingKHAN]

Possibly. The Japanese did, after all (twice.)

They also hid on an island . The Mongol's weren't known for a powerful navy, but for their Cavalry.

 

[KingKHAN]

I agree. This stuff in this thread is preposterous hero worship. The guy killed what, 12 million in China in a year's time? 30 million is no big deal? Gimme a break. Realize too that at the time he did that, it was effectively exponentially a larger number of people. Madrid only had about 50,000 people in it when Columbus discovered America. Now you have cities with ten million in them. When we think of 30 million now, the number should stagger us. But back then, it was fantastical. And they didn't do it with machine guns either, but up close and personal.

Genghis Khan would march his armies to cities and say surrender immediately or you'll all die. Of course, the average citizen back then had no more say what his government decided than he ever has; far less really, because democracy was even less pertinent and available than now. So whole cities got murdered after being presented with a frankly preposterous ultimatum, probably actually deliberated on by but a few people. If someone ran up out of nowhere and told you to give up everything you own and your family to slavery, or die, how reasonable would you find it?

The idea that all the people he murdered brought it on themselves is asinine.

The ideas that everyone conducted war just as he did, or that he can't be judged, are false and absurd.

People, and especially kids, need better heroes these days. And a whole lot more perspective.

Wow you really didn't do your homework did you? I've said it before, I'll say it again, he sent ambassadors LONG before he approached cities, he gave fair warning, it was the government(of that nations) choice to sever the head of the ambassador and return them to Mongolia with the highest of disrespect, that is what angered them, they didn't even have the courtesy to just say no, they had to slaughter the ambassador and his caravan, then send them back, that right there is a call for war, what did the civilians do? They didn't disagree or uprise against the government, now to me that seems like they back their own nation, making them part of the desecrating, making them just as responsible for the consequence. They never came to a city and demanded tribute just like that, they sent ambassadors you fool.

 

[Mujadaddy]

I don't consider anything the Mongols did as truly "Mongolian" after the death of Temujin

 

[KingKHAN]

I still had respect for the predecessors of Temujin, Og''dai, Batu and Mongke were good rulers.

 

[Mujadaddy]

Feh, they were dogs! There progeny were barely fit to follow the great Khan on the field of battle! (better than non-Mongols, of course)

 

[Mrdie]

If he was born in 1980 and just started his conquest for world domination right now, he would be considered as bad as Hitler. But in the 1100's and 1200's...well..yeah. He was one of the few leaders from before the Protestant reformation to allow religious freedom in his empire. And most of his enemys were mostly barbarians and etc that deserved the fate.

 

[silver 2039]

Genghis Khan was a great conqueror. He built the largest coninginous land Empire ever. His Empire streached from Germany, Polnd, and Hungary all the way across Central Asia, Persia, Middle East, China,....
Mongol armies were practially undefeatable on the land.