WOTM 12 Final Spoiler
- Thread starter ainwood
- Start date
Conquistador 63
Deity
post removed after GOTM21 final spoiler thread created.
I would just like to say a few words of congratulation to Hannibal. Judging from your big leads in the histograph, youre obviously on your way to victory. Although we never met, I think my civilization would have been very impressed by your powerful military and advanced technologies like Rifling. And Alphabet and Sailing, for that matter. Since we Japanese clearly posed no threat to you, I like to think we could have been friends. That would have been a nice change from hanging out with Alexander and Genghis all the time. As soon as I met those guys I knew they were trouble. And they proved it by totally wiping out my civilization a few minutes ago.
To be honest, I may have brought that on myself to some extent. I tried to get away with defending my early empire with just Warriors all the way until I discovered and started mining Iron around 895 BC. I figured with Combat I theyd be able to hold off the Barbarians. And it worked, sort of. I was able to expand up to 4 cities, and never lost anything important. But to accomplish that I needed so many of the little guys that they dragged down my economy a fair bit. Getting greedy and putting my third city way far west on that juicy flood plain with the marble probably wasn't smart either.
It was obvious my neighbors were homicidal maniacs. And the best defense is a good offense. So as soon as I did have Iron I built up a force of Swords and Axes to go after them. Had I known at the time that Alex had no metal, I would have targeted him, but I barely even knew where he lived. Whereas Genghis was close. So I attacked him in 145 BC. Turns out he had lots of metal. Not to mention cities on hills and cities with walls. My initial army couldnt touch his core, and settled for pillaging and razing some fringe cities while reinforcements came. In the end I had to settle for capturing New Sarai just north of my territory, with some Ivory that I coveted. If only I hadn't let that boat slip over to my poorly defended capital and raze it to the ground in 215 AD, I'd have called that war a success. At least I was able to make peace with as many cities as I started with and quickly rebuild Kyoto.
As expected, Alexander declared war on me while I was still fighting Genghis, but I was able to hold him off. I even used my military to grab a couple of barbarian cities. I teched up to Construction and started adding War Elephants and Catapults to my forces. But long before I was ready for another big fight, here came Alexander again in 950 AD. His initial wave overpowered my two western-most cities, but after that we entered into a long period where he kept throwing men at the walled hill city of New Sarai. I held him off there and even managed to send a force to the southwest and capture one of his cities in the hopes of trading it for peace. No dice. So I let him recapture it and then took it back from the jerk and razed it.
Right around this point Genghis, of course, declared war again. He promptly moved a big stack next to New Sarai, so I gifted the city to Alex for peace in 1394 AD. Genghis captured an outlying city and razed my new capital, Osaka (near the gold). I nabbed an isolated city of his and in 1490 AD he was willing to accept it back in return for peace. With only three cities and lousy technology to my name, however, all that was left for me to do was say hi to Mansa Musa when he plunked a city in what used to be my territory, and wait for either Alex or Genghis to come kill me. Alex obliged in 1625 AD, using Knights to butcher my Archers and Spears, wiping me out in 1646 AD.
So anyway, good show Hannibal! If you have a chance, perhaps you could drop a few nukes on Alex and Genghis before you win the game.
To be honest, I may have brought that on myself to some extent. I tried to get away with defending my early empire with just Warriors all the way until I discovered and started mining Iron around 895 BC. I figured with Combat I theyd be able to hold off the Barbarians. And it worked, sort of. I was able to expand up to 4 cities, and never lost anything important. But to accomplish that I needed so many of the little guys that they dragged down my economy a fair bit. Getting greedy and putting my third city way far west on that juicy flood plain with the marble probably wasn't smart either.
It was obvious my neighbors were homicidal maniacs. And the best defense is a good offense. So as soon as I did have Iron I built up a force of Swords and Axes to go after them. Had I known at the time that Alex had no metal, I would have targeted him, but I barely even knew where he lived. Whereas Genghis was close. So I attacked him in 145 BC. Turns out he had lots of metal. Not to mention cities on hills and cities with walls. My initial army couldnt touch his core, and settled for pillaging and razing some fringe cities while reinforcements came. In the end I had to settle for capturing New Sarai just north of my territory, with some Ivory that I coveted. If only I hadn't let that boat slip over to my poorly defended capital and raze it to the ground in 215 AD, I'd have called that war a success. At least I was able to make peace with as many cities as I started with and quickly rebuild Kyoto.
As expected, Alexander declared war on me while I was still fighting Genghis, but I was able to hold him off. I even used my military to grab a couple of barbarian cities. I teched up to Construction and started adding War Elephants and Catapults to my forces. But long before I was ready for another big fight, here came Alexander again in 950 AD. His initial wave overpowered my two western-most cities, but after that we entered into a long period where he kept throwing men at the walled hill city of New Sarai. I held him off there and even managed to send a force to the southwest and capture one of his cities in the hopes of trading it for peace. No dice. So I let him recapture it and then took it back from the jerk and razed it.
Right around this point Genghis, of course, declared war again. He promptly moved a big stack next to New Sarai, so I gifted the city to Alex for peace in 1394 AD. Genghis captured an outlying city and razed my new capital, Osaka (near the gold). I nabbed an isolated city of his and in 1490 AD he was willing to accept it back in return for peace. With only three cities and lousy technology to my name, however, all that was left for me to do was say hi to Mansa Musa when he plunked a city in what used to be my territory, and wait for either Alex or Genghis to come kill me. Alex obliged in 1625 AD, using Knights to butcher my Archers and Spears, wiping me out in 1646 AD.
So anyway, good show Hannibal! If you have a chance, perhaps you could drop a few nukes on Alex and Genghis before you win the game.
Markus5
Code Monkey
I expanded without incident to 6 cities before Geng declared. The attack was easily repulsed. I couldn't get any economy running even with cottage spam and fell behind in tech. My cultural borders were pushing to the north and west and I coveted cities in both. I finally decide that expansion by sword was the only option. North first, then a breather, then west. I took two cities from Geng that were not well-developed, but with great potential. I was stacking cats and elephants and bombarding a third city that was very nice and would add to my empire when Alex declared with a large-ish pair of stacks to the west. I was forced to abandon the war to the north and make peace. The bulk of my army was 8 turns from the new western front and I thought it looked bleak. But, the AI is rather stupid and instead of taking my city in a few turns, Alex stomped around razing improvements outside of my fat crosses -- improvements to his cities that he made and I got because of cultural expansion. I was able to whip and build cats and elephants and get them to the front. I held back Alex - barely. As the far-away units arrived and as I kept whipping more, I thought I could mount a counter attack. Alex would not make peace for anything except a city. I offered large sums of money and gpt, but nothing was acceptable except a city. Well, sometimes if you take a city the AI will make peace for a reasonable price. So, I took a real nice city that I was culturally engulfing anyway. Still, no peace except for a city. Take another city? I didn't think I could. Alex's stacks were coming back. So, I gave the new city for peace. I was tech-backwards and much had been destroyed. I rebuilt as best as I could and tried to keep the army staffed, too. But, it was no use. Geng declared again, and I thought I could hold off, but the next turn Alex declared and moved some really massive stacks into the western frontier. Elephants and cats work against knights and longbows, but not against more modern units. I retired.
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
They say mysery loves company, and it seems like perhaps there is plenty of both mysery and company in this WOTM.
Previously on Le Morte d'Vinci :
"Settled north to put one gold in capital. Lack of early copper led to a search for iron, and less than ideal city placements. All in all, a confused start.
Decided to focus on military buildup and by 410 had a nice mix of cats spears, axes and elephants and went after GK, who was huge by then, and leader on my continent. Problem was, 485 Alex declares on me on the other front."
So what happened? I lost a city to Alex in 530 AD, took and razed one of his 620, made peace. Against Khan, took and razed or kept 6 cities from 545 to 1085. Left him with just two cities.
But my economy was a shambles, having had to whip troops furiously to hold off Alex with the main army in Mongolia. And still kept too many cities, despite razing most.
Way behind in tech ... in 1172 declared on Alex and razed one city. I knew my only chance was to hit him then. But I could make no further progress. Peace in 1358 with no more cities lost on either side.
Somwhere in all this, MM sails up in a caravel ... his score is more than twice mine!
Clearly, NO orgy of mutual destruction going on on the other continent. Only question now is when does the futitily get to be too much to continue ...
Eventually, Alex decleares in 1535 ... he has knights, CB, cats, trebs and pike against my WE, spears, cats and samurai. I hold well for a while, but I lose a series of 70% combats of WE vs Knights, and his endless wave takes out two cities. I made peace for a third, sat back, and decided this was the time to punt. By now, Khan was passing me again.
And MM had just founded a city on our continent stocked with riflemen. Only consolation is that Alex and GK are not going to win either.
So I retired ... life is too short to play out this kind of futility, once you've already done that a few times in other games.
dV
Previously on Le Morte d'Vinci :
"Settled north to put one gold in capital. Lack of early copper led to a search for iron, and less than ideal city placements. All in all, a confused start.
Decided to focus on military buildup and by 410 had a nice mix of cats spears, axes and elephants and went after GK, who was huge by then, and leader on my continent. Problem was, 485 Alex declares on me on the other front."
So what happened? I lost a city to Alex in 530 AD, took and razed one of his 620, made peace. Against Khan, took and razed or kept 6 cities from 545 to 1085. Left him with just two cities.
But my economy was a shambles, having had to whip troops furiously to hold off Alex with the main army in Mongolia. And still kept too many cities, despite razing most.
Way behind in tech ... in 1172 declared on Alex and razed one city. I knew my only chance was to hit him then. But I could make no further progress. Peace in 1358 with no more cities lost on either side.
Somwhere in all this, MM sails up in a caravel ... his score is more than twice mine!
Clearly, NO orgy of mutual destruction going on on the other continent. Only question now is when does the futitily get to be too much to continue ...Eventually, Alex decleares in 1535 ... he has knights, CB, cats, trebs and pike against my WE, spears, cats and samurai. I hold well for a while, but I lose a series of 70% combats of WE vs Knights, and his endless wave takes out two cities. I made peace for a third, sat back, and decided this was the time to punt. By now, Khan was passing me again.
And MM had just founded a city on our continent stocked with riflemen. Only consolation is that Alex and GK are not going to win either.
So I retired ... life is too short to play out this kind of futility, once you've already done that a few times in other games.
dV
Harbourboy
Deity
Alexander and Genghis Khan ate me for lunch as well. My samurai and spearmen killed over 50 knights and keshiks, but the inevitable is, well, inevitable and I suffered a conquest loss in 1544 AD.
Where are all the people who have won this game with a BC year domination?
Where are all the people who have won this game with a BC year domination?
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
Don't know if anyone is getting across the pond that early ...
I never know whether to kill off one opponent, then go for the other, or to try to cripple both early in this kind of scenario. I have not had success with either approach (at least on emperor).
Just makes an always war game on monarch look so inviting, doesn't it?
dV
spacemanmf
Stalwart
This went the normal way of an Emperor game for me - I get left behind at the start and basically it's just damage limitation for the rest of the game.
Was a bit limited in space so was virtually forced to declare on Alex - I actually took 3 or 4 cities but then my samurais became out of date as Alex got first muskets then grenadiers, so I made peace.
I was Hindu, the same as Genghis and Alex, which made them reasonably happy with me, so I focussed entirely on infrastructure.
It got to the stage, in the 1800s, when I had fought my way almost (but not quite) to tech parity, with the benefit of lots of cottages and lots of financial buildings. I was still a fair bit behind in size, though, and power too.
I made a calculated gamble to switch to Free Religion to speed up my research. In hindsight, this was a mistake as I became immediately hated by Alex and Genghis, the former declaring on me with far superior forces not long after, finally conquering me in 1854.
Had I stayed Hindu, I might have had a chance in the space race as I wasn't far behind in researching Rocketry and no-one had built the Apollo Program when I was starting it.
Ah well, you live and learn. I wasn't particularly optimistic from the outset of this game (I struggle at Emperor level, particularly on Warlords) and, having been on holiday, I hurried the latter half of the game in order to submit in time (not missed a submission yet!). And I'm not particularly looking forward to GOTM22 having played a test game!
Was a bit limited in space so was virtually forced to declare on Alex - I actually took 3 or 4 cities but then my samurais became out of date as Alex got first muskets then grenadiers, so I made peace.
I was Hindu, the same as Genghis and Alex, which made them reasonably happy with me, so I focussed entirely on infrastructure.
It got to the stage, in the 1800s, when I had fought my way almost (but not quite) to tech parity, with the benefit of lots of cottages and lots of financial buildings. I was still a fair bit behind in size, though, and power too.
I made a calculated gamble to switch to Free Religion to speed up my research. In hindsight, this was a mistake as I became immediately hated by Alex and Genghis, the former declaring on me with far superior forces not long after, finally conquering me in 1854.
Had I stayed Hindu, I might have had a chance in the space race as I wasn't far behind in researching Rocketry and no-one had built the Apollo Program when I was starting it.
Ah well, you live and learn. I wasn't particularly optimistic from the outset of this game (I struggle at Emperor level, particularly on Warlords) and, having been on holiday, I hurried the latter half of the game in order to submit in time (not missed a submission yet!). And I'm not particularly looking forward to GOTM22 having played a test game!
spacemanmf, it sounds like you came closer than anyone else so far to a victory. In my experience if you are relatively close in tech to the AIs in the late stages of the game, you can usually win a Space Race. The reason being that the AIs don't place any particular urgency on constructing parts, whereas you will of course be doing everything you can to get those done quickly. So if you find yourself in that situation again I'd say don't worry about the research so much, and focus on production and on staying on good terms with the AI instead.
spacemanmf
Stalwart
It makes me regret my decision even more!
In fairness to myself, the change was also partly because Hannibal was becoming immensely powerful (having all but finished off Mansa - this warring helped me catch up somewhat) and was Buddhist (although admittedly on a different island). Also, I expected most of the AIs to switch to Free Religion themselves as well fairly soon, which would have lost me the shared religion bonuses anyway.
I also thought that because I was significantly smaller than the other Civs (8-10 cities vs 20-25 cities) and that they were only teching slowly because of the warring (which had recently stopped) that I had to do something to keep up.
Ah well.
In fairness to myself, the change was also partly because Hannibal was becoming immensely powerful (having all but finished off Mansa - this warring helped me catch up somewhat) and was Buddhist (although admittedly on a different island). Also, I expected most of the AIs to switch to Free Religion themselves as well fairly soon, which would have lost me the shared religion bonuses anyway.
I also thought that because I was significantly smaller than the other Civs (8-10 cities vs 20-25 cities) and that they were only teching slowly because of the warring (which had recently stopped) that I had to do something to keep up.
Ah well.
I think I might have won if I hadn't built the UN. I must have been thinking of civ3 rules where owning the UN allows you to Prevent the vote from happening. Nope, instead Hannibal got elected, ushered in 'no nukes' and then the killer, free religion, which caused Buddhist Alex to change his mind about abstaining from the diplo victory vote.
Arg. Took it out to 1892, was in a golden age, a couple turns from the space elevator... well, you can't win them all.
Arg. Took it out to 1892, was in a golden age, a couple turns from the space elevator... well, you can't win them all.
Kennigit
proud 2 boxer
But alas, a loss as well. I didn't expand right at all this game, didn't get my tech going, and didn't have enough cities, etc. Ghengis and Alex were my buddhist buddies, and mansa and hannibal were both good trading partners with me. As the game progressed, I was okay in tech with Mansa and Hannibal (didn't get liberalism but was first down democracy path),but I knew I wouldn't win without more land. I pay-rushed calvary and attacked Alex, without clicking f4 to see he had a defensive pact with Gheghis 
. I retired soon after.
Funny thing this game- I actually circumnavigated the world. I traded something to mansa to get his world map, and when I sent a worker to scout alex's land for my war I suddenly circumnavigated. I never even met Lizzy
.
. I retired soon after.Funny thing this game- I actually circumnavigated the world. I traded something to mansa to get his world map, and when I sent a worker to scout alex's land for my war I suddenly circumnavigated. I never even met Lizzy
.
Munro
Deity
Less than 5 hours left to submission so I am going to have to submit an incomplete...
At 1514AD though things are looking reasonable. My second Greek war is about to end, and Alex is virtually destroyed - down to 3 or 4 scattered tundra holes. Genghis is ahead in techs but not unassailable. (He tech'd gunpowder only recently - I am 6 turns away). All on our continent are Confucian.
View attachment 160405
Alex's last useful city about to fall...
View attachment 160406
On the other continent, Liz vasalised Mansa around 500 AD and her and Hanibal are far away in techs, but still plenty of time to catch them. Infrastructure is solid including Heroic / Military Academy / Military Instructor city at Kyoto, and a recent rush of universities.
View attachment 160403
View attachment 160404
Plan from here is to tech to gunpowder and chemistry, and take down Genghis exploiting usual AI military ineptitude. With Alex's lands, I already have more than half the settled continent, and Genghis lands will add more resource rich lands and much coveted Confucian shrine. Build infrastructure for the long term military victory, and with a whole continent of resources and cities the AI on the other continent will eventually fall.
Anyway, that's the plan...
I think important early decisions included paying tribute to both Alex and Genghis when required - giving both a strong tech lead early on, but ultimately allowing me to choose my wars and fight on one front at a time - and declaring on Alex when he started to pull ahead in techs. (Nothing like a war to put the brakes on an AI). Keeping a strong military presence on my nothern borders and sharing a religion helped keep Genghis away.
Have submitted my incomplete game but will probably play on to see how this one turns out... I'm coming for you Liz!
At 1514AD though things are looking reasonable. My second Greek war is about to end, and Alex is virtually destroyed - down to 3 or 4 scattered tundra holes. Genghis is ahead in techs but not unassailable. (He tech'd gunpowder only recently - I am 6 turns away). All on our continent are Confucian.
View attachment 160405
Alex's last useful city about to fall...
View attachment 160406
On the other continent, Liz vasalised Mansa around 500 AD and her and Hanibal are far away in techs, but still plenty of time to catch them. Infrastructure is solid including Heroic / Military Academy / Military Instructor city at Kyoto, and a recent rush of universities.
View attachment 160403
View attachment 160404
Plan from here is to tech to gunpowder and chemistry, and take down Genghis exploiting usual AI military ineptitude. With Alex's lands, I already have more than half the settled continent, and Genghis lands will add more resource rich lands and much coveted Confucian shrine. Build infrastructure for the long term military victory, and with a whole continent of resources and cities the AI on the other continent will eventually fall.
Anyway, that's the plan...
I think important early decisions included paying tribute to both Alex and Genghis when required - giving both a strong tech lead early on, but ultimately allowing me to choose my wars and fight on one front at a time - and declaring on Alex when he started to pull ahead in techs. (Nothing like a war to put the brakes on an AI). Keeping a strong military presence on my nothern borders and sharing a religion helped keep Genghis away.
Have submitted my incomplete game but will probably play on to see how this one turns out... I'm coming for you Liz!
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