WOTM 27 Final Spoiler

Great learning experience game. (It is amazing one can say that after 4 years.) Space 1931

On turn 9 I could have taken a shot at capturing Seoul, but there was decent chance he had a warrior guarding. I could also have build two warriors more and made the attack, but there was some danger of Wang getting to Archery. I decided to tech straight to alphabet and have a peaceful start trading with the neighbors.

I think my initial tech rate was very good with Education coming in the near AD, but my lack of aggressive expansion cost me in later tech rate. Since I have been working on small emperor games for EQM, I have a natural tendency to under expand at lower levels and standard size maps. (I will need to get over that for GOTM51.)

I did not realize Environmentalism would give +1 happy per forest, so I was slow switching to it. I made a big switch from Bureaucracy, Mercantilism, and Pacifism to Free Speech, Environmentalism, and Free Religion in the 1600s. Slavery to Caste System came with Mercantilism. In the end game I switched to Universal Suffrage to buy some factories, and labs and for the +1 hammer. I made a final switch to Bureaucracy, plowing under the capitals towns to make a push for the final part that finished one or two turns after the next to last part.

Wonders built were, Oracle (CS), Great Library, Statue of Liberty (probably a mistaken use of hammers - possibly true for all wonders built except the last), Taj Mahal, 3 Gorges Dam - power for even non-river cities.
 
This would have been a good game to award medals strictly on speed. Victory strategies requiring advanced development and large cities were somewhat frustrated by the map conditions that made commerce hard to produce and building difficult once forests were depleted. Wish the administrators would consider that option, at least on occasion.

How would you do this? The speed awards already take care of the fastest finishes (Baring the Cow). Are you saying to give the gold to the same person who win the fastest conquest? That would be redundant would it not? :eek:
 
How would you do this? The speed awards already take care of the fastest finishes (Baring the Cow). Are you saying to give the gold to the same person who win the fastest conquest? That would be redundant would it not? :eek:

Speed awards are not medals (which are given status -- HOF, Global Rankings, etc.) and don't provide for second and third place finishes, but there would indeed be some redudancy. Fastest finishes that also garner a medal for high score are in some sense redundant now. Could argue that this would be no different.
 
Goal: Between not having enough time to finish, and not having enough smarts to remember that diplo was disabled … I am 0 for the last 3 XOTM’s, giving me a gaping “open frame” in the global ranking table (a 30ish point hole, dropping me to 38 score and 42 speed even before the 0 in GOTM gets put up!). (Open frame is an American 10 pin bowling reference, if anyone is saying “say what? :D) So I am looking to post 30 to 50 points in each category with this one game … which means the goal is …

Coercive Diplo Victory (aka Diplo Dom) on Prince (Challenger) for added score.

Game Concept: no resources, no hills. Where are the power-tiles?

Farm floodplains for food, cottage grass, leave plains forest as “mini-mines”

How to propel research: get a Parthenon-fueled Great Library and NE GP farm to go with a cottage bureaucracy capital. Add one HE military city, and then acquire!

Optimize whipping and chopping with forges, so also get MC from Oracle.

The game play:

T0: Warrior NW, settler SE … saw more FP, decided to split them between cities, so moved west.

T1: Settled Washington “south of the forest” (not much of a landmark in this game, is it? :mischief: ... 1 South of settler starting tile). Builds: Worker, warrior x2, settler.

Settled New York 4 south 3 east of Washington as GP Farm on turn 39. Settled Boston 4 east of Washington as HE military city on turn 65. Then set to work on my wonder list, later settled Philly 5 east of NY on the tip of that short southeast cape from Boston (Cape Cod?) on turn 126 as a minor hammer city. By turn 134 it was war with Korea, and all other cities came from conquest until some late pop point filler spamming.

Techs: mining (T12) forestry (formerly known as bronze working :lol:) (T21) wheel (T30) pottery (T35) writing (T49) math for chop bonus (T65) alpha (T78) … T77 I stole a worker from Louis, so worried about defense … hunt (T80) archery (T82) trade for priesthood (T83) trade for masonry (T84) literature (T95) monotheism either trade or self, construction (T105) currency (T115) (is that a long enough list for you jesusin? :mischief:)

Wonders: T84 Oracle starts in Wash … T90 done, take MC

T92 start forge in NY, then T100 start G Lib there, complete pre-chops, done T 111 (100 BC)

T101 start Parthenon in Wash, T114 done (25 BC)

War history:

T 77 worker steal Louis … T 85 peace. Got this one home safe.

T 119, first cat is built, target is Korea

T133 second worker steal Louis. Killed it as risk of recapture was high. Peace T 139.

T134 (475 AD) war on Korea … by turn 153 he is vassaled.

T 177 war on France (1170 AD). Capture Orleans, which then has see-saw fighting (but no recaptures) for a while …

Then I forget to move extra troops in as my main attack stack leaves for another target … and Louis retakes it with muskets from out of sight. With one turn left on the Uni that would let me make Oxford !!! :eek: :mad: :sad:

So I just go retake it, right? Except that a tiny Korean army in the area beats me to it !!! :eek: :mad: :sad:

So I let Louis take it from Korea so I can get it back.

1420 I make peace with Louis after taking a total of 3 cites … Capac just got Edu, so I have to focus on Liberalism race … which I win and take chem for the Grens (turn 208)

On turn 214 back to war with Louis … by turn 247 he is vassaled (1685).

Churchill is at war with Capac, who is my Budda buddy … I take one city and also London, and Churchill capitulates.

From there, an easy mop up of Mehmed (vassaled with only two tundra cities left), and pick of three Monte cities while I race for MM.

Cash rush the UN in Boston (after it built Taj for a GA to speed the tech run).

I end up with a 1924 Diplo victory, base score 4764, Final Score 89843. I think this is my highest XOTM score ever.

Diplo mechanics notes:

I had 61.87% of world pop on the victory conditions screen (presumably my pop plus a fraction of my vassal’s pops), 357/861 showing on mouse-over on the game map (for 41%, presumably my pop without vassals), and for the UN vote, I received all my and my vassal votes, which was 418 of the 577 votes (72.4).

When the vote screen came up, it said I needed 349 of 564, which is 61.8%. When the votes were counted, it said I needed 357/577 which is also 61.8%

So it seems I had 41% of world pop myself, my vassals had an additional 31% of it which counts fully for diplo voting puposes.

Only an additional 20 to 21% of world pop was added from my vassals’ pop to my pop to get the 62% on the victory conditions screen under domination. That would be my getting credit for 2/3 of my vassals’ pop toward dom. Does that sound right?

Mouse-over of land says I have 582/1134 or 51% of land … dom screen says 55.7%. Is the proportion of vassal land applied to dom also 2/3? Or something smaller?

dV
 
T133 second worker steal Louis. Killed it as risk of recapture was high.
Don't the AIs automatically destroy captured workers?
[To prevent you from recapturing them. You are acting like an AI. "Great minds think alike".] Anyway, so that's a risk you could take.
Or am I wrong here?
 
Don't the AIs automatically destroy captured workers?
[To prevent you from recapturing them. You are acting like an AI. "Great minds think alike".] Anyway, so that's a risk you could take.
Or am I wrong here?

Generally they move them into one of their cities, and you can capture them back when you take the city, but there are occassions when they seem to just disappear. Be interested to know if anyone knows exactly how this is programmed.
 
Don't the AIs automatically destroy captured workers?
[To prevent you from recapturing them. You are acting like an AI. "Great minds think alike".] Anyway, so that's a risk you could take.
Or am I wrong here?

Generally they move them into one of their cities, and you can capture them back when you take the city, but there are occassions when they seem to just disappear. Be interested to know if anyone knows exactly how this is programmed.
Maybe they destroy the ones they capture in enemy territory, but I'd think they would keep ones they capture in or near thier own? Who knows?

dV
 
Cmon WoTM28!
Its coming... in about 3 weeks. :mischief:
I just checked the entries and there is a submission there from you. :goodjob:

Sorry I've been out of the loop a bit, RL has been intruding in my fun. ;)

Some great write ups.
@Fluroscent - I tried this as a concept game, really. Never played one before so I decided to provide some "help" with leader choice for :health: and :). I had hoped that more folks would use the Challenger save as I think it would have provided a bit more difficulty as the AI techs a bit faster. The AI doesn't use cottages and chops very well though. :(

I was looking forward to seeing what you have all done with it. More on that soon. :mischief:

@CP - I think you're right that this may have been more interesting as a fastest finish challenge. I'll try to keep that in mind in future.

Perhaps we can try this as a :bts: game sometime where siege weapons do not kill, and with a bit more difficulty. Thanks for the comments on ways to improve things.

Now to think about WOTM28? :hmm:
 
I settled 1 SE on the Flood Plain square.

Two more cities took up the Flood Plains to the SE of our start, as I missed finding any other ones nearby (by the time that I found Huayna's, he'd settled them).

I teched to Construction for Catapults. I captured Seoul plus 1 other Korean city by 600 BC.

I built The Oracle in 350 BC, taking a long time to decide between Civil Service and Feudalism. I eventually went for Feudalism, even though I figured that Catapults would be sufficient to take over the world.

Paris and one other French city were mine by 1 AD. I captured Louis' last city in 300 AD, at the same time that Churchill built up The Great Wall.

In fact, The Great Wall, Stonehenge, The Sistine Chapel (by way of Huayna's Great Engineer), and the Mahabodhi (by way of Montezuma's late-game Prophet) were the only Wonders that I did not build.

Huayna was getting dangerously close to Feudalism, so he was the next target. By 660 AD, I'd razed about 6 of his cities and captured 2 more. He finally vassalized to me the next turn. Shortly before then, I'd declared again on Wang Kong for settling in the place of one of Huayna's poorly-placed ex-cities (a razed city). I then left Wang Kong within a hair's breadth of survival (a single wounded unit in his "new" capital), but a Barb Swordman finished him off before he would capitulate.

With France and Korea gone and the Incans as a vassal, Churchill and Mehmed II quickly capitulated (880 AD and 1130 AD, respectively). By 1240 AD, I had Montezuma begging to become my vassal for a Conquest Victory. Somehow, the thought left my mouth feeling bitter, so I refused to take the easy win.

I kept after him, taking down most of his cities and breaking his back. By 1410 AD, I had enough land to take Montezuma as a vassal and win a Domination Victory. But again, I didn't really feel like doing so.

So, I started to build up towards a Space game.

However, the relatively unconquered Churchill and Mehmed II's lands backfired and made me gift Montezuma about 11 cities just to avoid a Domination win (he was the only one who would take cities, since all of the other AI were my vassals). I don't think that there is a way to "Liberate" a city to a vassal like you can in BtS, so, to avoid triggering Domination, I kept giving back cities that I'd captured as well as additional cities that I'd founded.

However, I lost more than 500 Science Flasks per turn from the loss of those cities and my vassals weren't very good at helping me tech, so 1950 AD or so was looking like it would have been the earliest that I could have made it to space.

So, I then decided to figure out what all the hype about "milking" was, since I'd never really tried to do it. It was too late in the game for a high points value from the adjusted (Final) Score, but a high Base Score was within my grasp.

Still, I had too many vassals, so my actual primary goal became that of "ridding myself of all of my vassals."
:sniper: <--Monte :help: :help: :help: <--Them :mischief: <--Me :popcorn: <--Me a bit later

I upped Montezuma's tech to Riflemen and Grenadiers, but he'd had to disband all of his military (due to Strikes, I imagine) from taking on all of my cities while having too low of a tech value (not even having Currency, if I recall correctly).

Several stacks of 10+ Archers in the hands of my allies (I kept them technologically backwards, at least in terms of the military techs) would still wipe out lone Riflemen. Plus, Montezuma would have been on the defensive, while even losing one of his cities to one of my vassals would have pushed me close to or over the Domination limit.

So, I "advanced" Montezuma in tech, giving him up to Assembly Line so that he could build some decent buildings and have enough trade routes to keep himself afloat. Eventually, he had enough Infantry to defend from hordes of Archers, Catapults, and the odd Trebuchet or Longbowman in the hands of my "allies." It took hundreds of years, but I managed to get him to capture enough of my allies' cities for Churchill and later Mehmed II to "renounce my protection," citing how poorly I had protected them (I didn't blame them, either!). Churchill, I decided to eliminate, so that I could own some of his best city sites. Mehmed II, I kept around, letting him occupy the tundra.

It wasn't until the very late game that I could convince Montezuma to go after Huayna's cities. It wasn't until 2174 AD that Montezuma finally moved his lazy armies into Huayna's "new" capital. Huayna had had enough of me and immediately vassalized himself to Montezuma.

I bought Mehmed II back into the war and could have gone for a Diplomatic win, but I just wanted to push the game to see how long it would last.

Strategically, I would have been better off protecting Huayna and keeping him as a vassal, as his capital had actually been reducing the number of Land squares that I owned by a considerable amount. By taking the city, Montezuma only occupied the city centre and the rest of my culture surrounded the city, meaning that I now owned the "full" amount of those Land squares, instead of the previous half amount when they were my vassal's (Huayna's). So, with only one more square at stake, I decided that I'd just keep the city for myself. That extra land plus a couple of more city cultural expansions around the empire was enough to give me a late-game Domination win. I could have grabbed any victory if I'd protected Huayna's city and kept him as my vassal, but seeing as how I'd have virtually no chance at a fastest victory (only if no one had gone for a particular victory condition) and seeing as how a "low points" victory would be unlikely when I owned enough Land for Domination and far more Population than would be required, I don't think that it really would have mattered how I won the game in terms of obtaining a Shield.

The submission form logged the win as occuring in 2050AD, well before the game actually ended, so we'll see what appears in the final results' tables. I wonder if there will be some "jury-rigging" required just to get the results to show up properly.

With a Base Score far over 10000 points, it will take a very determined individual to steal the Cow out from underneath of me.

'Twas a fun game! Thanks, Leif!

The key techs in my mind were:

Construction: For the main military backbone, Catapults

Feudalism (or Civil Service if you were going for a fast space game): For overkill with Vassalage and Longbowmen or a better Science rate

Monotheism: Once you'd gotten enough religion spread around to make Organized Religion worthwhile, the extra production was more useful than in a normal game

Metal Casting: Forges, even with -1 Health and no additional Happiness, were still a worthwhile trade-off for this production-poor map

Banking: It appears that Vassals in Warlords DO NOT trade with you under Mercantilism, which was a major disappointment for someone with 3 Vassals to learn the hard way. However, I found the extra Specialist to be very useful, giving me an Engineer for additional production in most cities

Biology: If you were still in the game at this point, the extra food was a greater boon than normal, seeing as how we didn't really have "bonus tiles" to marginalize Biology's effects. In other words, the extra food had a far greater relative impact than in a game where you have 2-5 Resource squares per city.

Medicine: Environmentalism RULED if you left your Forests relatively intact, as I had done--I'd chopped about 40% of them but had about 75% of the chopped ones grow back by this point in the game, giving me about 12 Health and 12 Happiness per city (12 Forests = 12 Happiness under Environmentalism; 12 Forests = +6 Health and Environmentalism = +6 Health). The Hospitals for extra Health helped a lot, too. I don't think that the Environmentalism Civic in BtS is nearly as good, as they replaced the +1 Happiness per Forest effect with simply giving you +1 Happiness at any time (regardless of your Civic selections) for each Forest Preserve. In Warlords, though, Environmentalism with a few to several Forests per city was a good enough replacement for a lack of Resources, at least in terms of Health and Happiness effects

Genetics: An extra 3 Health everywhere was useful

Future Techs: Eventually, I was able to chop all forests and Irrigate (put a Farm on) just about every square--except for non-irrigatable squares, such as Coast and Tundra not located on a River--due to the extra Happiness and Health provided by each one of these Techs that I researched. Some cities, with 45 or so Unhappiness from War Weariness, a lack of Emancipation, and the citizens' desire to join their Mother Land was not enough to counter my 60+ Future Techs' bonus Happiness

Communism: Once Environmentalism wasn't needed, State Property allowed me to spam cities within my borders for additional population. I think that this Civic is the key to milking, as you really want to have as many marginal cities as possible to fill in the gaps between cities (so that these additional cities aren't pushing out your cultural borders), while State Property keeps your finances in check enough to do so
 
:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

I messed up the Aztec gotm because I sped up final turns and did not see Mansa and Sal land units next to a cat defended city and razed it. The cav units that were nearby were sleeping along with me.

And as an encore, I got a late game domi in 1850 in behalf of Washington when I was two turns from completing Rocketry. My cap was ready with a factory, a Lab, 21 pop and 13 forests. I had about 10 high hammer cities and was teching like crazy when I went into "press the red button" mode. I even saw the warning but reacted too late. :mad:

I am a builder and like space way better than silly domination.
 
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