WOTM 62 Final Spoiler - Game Submitted or Abandoned

Deckhand

Procrastination at its finest
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WOTM62 Final Spoiler thread

How did you win?
What did you most enjoy?
What was the most aggravating?
(Edit)Did you determine the personalities of the AIs?
 
Well domination win 1715AD (ish)

What did I like about this game... Building the Great Wall and watching the poor AI get squished by barbs. :lol:

Aggravating.. Probably the slow movement of units on a large map. At least until I had engineering/horses.. :)

Ended up vassaling most of the AI and ending up still at war with Churchill and Nap when I triggered the domination limit
 
Combo of epic speed, large map, poor land, random personalities and scarce resources sucks!

At first raging barbs were a real pain in the you know what, but after building GW they were really helpful at stopping other civs from expanding. Sadly I didn't use this situation to my advantage. At the end I had about 20% of the land when I easily could have about 40%.

Cyrus and Bono declared early, made peace with Cyrus, capped Bono. Slowly expanded, didn't find horses, started spreading religion and kissing everyone's you know what. And once again reached a very late diplo win.
 
Late gate Dom win. Could have capped the Cyrus at the end for Conquest but just played out the Dom.

This is the longest game I can remember playing in a while, even though the second half was all Cavalry. Quite likely played over at least a dozen separate sessions. Enjoyed the early bit of the game trying to figure how to best win with the land and resources at hand whilst fighting off the endless barbs. Could have gone Great Wall but thought it would be better to use barbs for XP. That was actually fun until I lost a city.

Aggravating bit was the second half of the game, was pretty much the same story with the last 4 AI. Not much thinking. Take a city, tromp over another 8 tiles and take another. Get two stacks going, then take on 2 AI at the same time with 4 stacks. Just keeping track of all the warring was a bit of work while at the same time worrying about micro on 25+ cities. Argh.

Did not determine AI personalities. Did not fell while playing like it would have helped.
 
This one started bad and could not end well :nono:. My attempt in buildind The Great Wall didn't work: I had one Warrior defendind the Capital. So started the invasion. After that, my two Warriors killed 28 Barbs (only Warriors) :whew:, but they destroyed all my improvements and my Worker [pissed]. I finished GW with no improvement (14 turns with nothing to do, just watch my Warriors gain experience: both ended with 10/17) in 1120 BC and had to start all over again :twitch:...

After that I tryed to expand with one Warrior per city, when at 600AD Cyrus declared with 2 Swords and some Archers. I was very upset with the case of the GW, so gave up before lost my city :(...

I had a great expectation for this game, but I have disappointed me :sad:!

Anyway, now I can start it again and try to finish The Great Wall before Barbs arrive in the city :coffee:. Before this new attempt, a little break for a coffe and cool down ...
 
@Falabello, thanks for submitting, good luck on your 2nd try.
 
This one started bad and could not end well :nono:. My attempt in buildind The Great Wall didn't work: I had one Warrior defendind the Capital. So started the invasion. After that, my two Warriors killed 28 Barbs (only Warriors) :whew:, but they destroyed all my improvements and my Worker [pissed]. I finished GW with no improvement (14 turns with nothing to do, just watch my Warriors gain experience: both ended with 10/17) in 1120 BC and had to start all over again :twitch:...

After that I tryed to expand with one Warrior per city, when at 600AD Cyrus declared with 2 Swords and some Archers. I was very upset with the case of the GW, so gave up before lost my city :(...

I had a great expectation for this game, but I have disappointed me :sad:!

Anyway, now I can start it again and try to finish The Great Wall before Barbs arrive in the city :coffee:. Before this new attempt, a little break for a coffe and cool down ...

I recommend to forget about GW(!) and instead go straight for axemen. GW is way too expencive (no stone or industrious bonus), you get it too late (barbarians starts to enter borders much, much sooner) and you need a useless, rather expensive, tech to get it. An axeman pr city should be enough against the barbarians untill barabarian sword/axe turns up (~1AD)

PS: never attack anything unless you got 95%+ odds, your axemens are just valuable
 
@Falabello, thanks for submitting, good luck on your 2nd try.

Thanks for your attention :)!


I recommend to forget about GW(!) and instead go straight for axemen. GW is way too expencive (no stone or industrious bonus), you get it too late (barbarians starts to enter borders much, much sooner) and you need a useless, rather expensive, tech to get it.

You are right. In my game I built a Worker and started TGW, but didn't chop a forest (I teched Pottery instead and before BW). In fact, I didn't expected the Barbs before I finish it (I also had this thought because the level). Well, there were few games with Ragging Barbs and Large maps. These details made the difference (considering my little experience with them).

In my 2# attempt, I teched Agric, Mas and BW. Soon after my Worker chopped the forests. In the end Barbs appeared, but I finished it before the wave of Warriors. (I reached 1 AD with 9 cities, so I liked this result...)

An axeman pr city should be enough against the barbarians untill barabarian sword/axe turns up (~1AD)

I agree with you - TGW (expensive, no stone, no bonus, Masonry before others...).
On the other hand, surely I wouldn't have your ability and skill to deal with all those Barbs with only one Axe per city :clap:. On the contrary, in other games, I had to maintain three or four defenders per city. Also the center position of the city on large map (remembering the tip in the start spoiler), Barbs came from all directions, attacking and destroying improvements. Archers also increase the problem :eek:!

Your recommendation is very acceptable, but I'm afraid to deal with it :blush:! I still don't know what to do in the next ragging games :crazyeye:!
 
With the amount of barbs you get in a raging barb game. Especially with an open map the Great Wall is much cheaper than building lots of military. To my mind anyway.. ;) Even if you hole up in cities you lose all your improvements without the units to protect them.

I suppose the best way without building the GWall is fast settling/fogbusting so the barbs don't reach your core and you can actually start improving your lands.
 
I must have been influenced by the special challenge, because I went for conquest on a large (almost all land) map.

As I said in the first spoiler, I was still at only 5 cities at 1 AD and I was working on a small stack of Praets.

The French War 230 -575 AD
Not much opposition. I kept Paris and one other city, burned the rest.

The Zulu War 605 - 740 AD

Shaka was really having trouble with barbs. He only had two cities. I kept his capital because it was on the same river as my cities, but it was quite a while before I actually got trade on that river.

The Celtic War 950 AD - 1667 AD
I got reinforcements for the stack that had taken down Napoleon and started marching NE on Brennus. I rejected the idea of attacking Hannibal due to his Numidian Cavalry, which would've been really tough on Praets. Brennus was so spread out that I had trouble finding the next city after I successfully razed one. I don't think I ever took peace with him, but I could finish his last city until I got several cavalry up there.

The First Persian War 1055 - 1184 AD
I started out well by taking and burning Persepolis and two other cities. Then came the War Elephants. I didn't want any part of that, so I got the peace treaty and decided to move on.

Interlude: I realized at this point that my dream of a Praetorian conquest was just not going to happen. I figured I could finish it with Cavalry, but I still didn't have horses and I was a long way away on techs. So, I redirected my army from Persia to GK until I got a city with horses nearby.

The First Mongol War 1300 - 1382 AD

Captured a total of 4 cities, I think. Burned them all until I got one with horses. Then I started building a long road from my territory to the roads the Mongols had built.

The Second Persian War 1582 - ~1610 AD
This was the beginning of my final sweep. I had to pick off some new cities they had founded, but it went pretty quickly. I got road built over that way and I kept feeding more Cavalry in that direction.

The Second Mongol War ~1620 - 1664 AD
The sweep continues from West to Northwest. North is already largely empty, but I'm discovering Viking cities encroaching on that area. I actually lost access to horses for several turns because I carelessly let my horse pasture get pillaged. I built some Trebs and Grens for a bit until I could go back to Cavalry.

The Viking War 1676 - 1768 AD
This was the other defining moment in the game. Ragnar was the tech leader and actually had some Cavalry. His outlying cities didn't put up much resistance, but the core cities were tough. Fortunately, I razed one of his cities early that had a horse resource nearby. There was one more horse pasture, so I sent a pair of Cavs to pillage it. Ragnar didn't even try to defend it.

The Punic/English/Viking War ~1700 - 1768 AD
The other civs had nothing better than Longbows, so I declared on Hannibal while tracking down Viking cities. Then I declared on Churchill as soon as I took some Carthaginian cities and there was an opportunity to use neutral land with roads instead of the slow going in enemy territory.

"Can't we all just get along..."
As you can see in my screenie, there were 5 barb cities at the end. Not nearly as many as I expected. The AI captured a bunch of them, and the barbs never rebuilt elsewhere. You can also see that I should've kept more cities. If I had been close to the Dom limit when I finish my conquest, I would've gotten a more respectable score. As it is, my efforts were rewarded with a measly 23k points.
 

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Space, 1828AD
Well mine was an 1828AD space victory. As I hinted at in the first spoiler, I completely screwed up science in the early game by founding most of my early cities in locations good more for production, so in the end I was quite relieved to get such a relatively good (by my standards) date. I realized I was in trouble with science when I finally limped to discovering Civil Service (which was crucially important to irrigate many of my cities) around 900 AD :(

The Power of Biology
Things only really got fixed when I discovered biology and communism around 1600AD. Wow, those two techs were incredibly powerful on this map. For ages afterwards, my workers were occupied converting farms to cottages on cities that had been struggling to grow but suddenly had way too much food. By the end of the game, I was generating over 6600bpt. (Over 8500bpt during my end-game golden age). It was amazing watching future techs like fusion, robotics, and future tech get researched in < 3 turns - on epic as well!

Early Wars
After 1AD, basically I expanded peacefully, protected by the Great Wall, until I think sometime around 500AD, when there were no more reasonable sites, so I declared on Shaka. Man, the barbs had really taken their toll. He had basically no improvements, no roads, and his only forces appeared to be 2 archers defending each of his three (!) cities. I don't think I've ever fought an easier war. The only problem was his cities were so widely spaced that it took ages to walk to them. And then I had to improve them all from scratch.

I then wiped out Louis, whose situation was similar (although he got longbows shortly into the war, which made things harder).

Then I attacked Persia, now with knights, maces and trebuchets - this was a lot harder because he had developed quite good infrastructure. Towards the end, he vassaled to Brennus, which just meant I got to take several of Brennus's cities before Brennus capitulated. That gave me a total of around 50% land, rising to 55% by the end of the game.

A New Bug?
I encountered a very unfortunate bug when Cyrus vassalled to Brennus: At that point I had a great merchant in Celtia, protected by two knights. When the vasalling happened, and Brennus thus declared war on me, the knights got teleported out (IIRC, into Hannibal's land), but the merchant didn't. Ouch! :eek:

Those few seconds of 'So there are the knights. Uh? Where's the great merchant????' were practically heart-stopping! Definitely in the 'don't try this at home, folks!' category. Luckily the knights were only teleported a couple of tiles away, so the merchant was able to run back to them the same turn. Brennus did immediately attack the knights/merchant with a pikeman, but luckily, lost. Phew!

Wonders and Capitals
I used Rome as a wonder-production city rather than a capital, and moved the actual capital twice - first to a site where the river kinked Eastwards north of Rome that had 8 flood plains. And then later on to the captured uMungundlova (or however you spell it), which also had lots of flood plains but the added benefit of no desert.

A couple of unusual things in this game.

Engineers
Rome's wonder-spamming (plus first to Fusion) gave me a total of 7 great engineers! I don't think I've ever had so many. At one stage I was actually wonder what I could do with some of the spare ones lying around. In the end, 2 of them built the hanging gardens and -umm - chichen itza (I know. I was desperate for a great prophet to build a shrine at that point. It worked too - I got one). 4 of them built the three gorges dam and the space elevator. And the last one contributed to a final golden age.

Shrine
Talking of the shrine: Earlier I'd founded Confucianism with the Oracle. Then, because around 1AD I had so much production and so few good city sites, I ended up having one city just produce Confucian missionaries. This meant that almost every city I founded or captured, I had a missionary on hand to immediately 'educate' it. Can you imagine how powerful a shrine would be in that situation...? Mid game I was getting around 60 gpt from the shrine. By the end of the game: 50 of my cities, all but one with Confucianism, and quite a few AI cities too. Grocer, market, bank and wall street in the holy city. You can do the maths.... I think that's one of the few things in this game that went perfectly to plan.

Final Thoughts
I really liked this map. It has some very unusual challenges - especially with the vast areas of open land, but so lacking in resources, forcing cities to be much more spaced out than normal. On the other hand, epic/large map really ate up real-life time. I don't think I could do maps like this very often!
 
A New Bug?
I encountered a very unfortunate bug when Cyrus vassalled to Brennus: At that point I had a great merchant in Celtia, protected by two knights. When the vasalling happened, and Brennus thus declared war on me, the knights got teleported out (IIRC, into Hannibal's land), but the merchant didn't. Ouch! :eek:

Those few seconds of 'So there are the knights. Uh? Where's the great merchant????' were practically heart-stopping! Definitely in the 'don't try this at home, folks!' category. Luckily the knights were only teleported a couple of tiles away, so the merchant was able to run back to them the same turn. Brennus did immediately attack the knights/merchant with a pikeman, but luckily, lost. Phew!
That's not a bug.
It is a feature.

Like caravels, Great Merchants don't care about open borders and can go where they want. So, like caravels, if the borders are closed, the GMs don't teleport away.

One thing I don't understand is if GMs are vulnerable to a civ that you are at war with. I think they are and you were thus lucky to have him escape.
 
It was all that I could do to survive the Barb onslaught. Countless Military Units and others (Workers, Settlers, and Missionaries) were lost to the Barbarian Hordes (multiple hordes, since there had to be more than one organized Barbarian group, given the numbers that came our way).

When Genghis beat me to building The Great Wall by 1 turn, he had to go.

On the way there, Cyrus' Cities looked ripe for the picking, so I scooped those up, then went for Genghis and The Great Wall.

From that point on, the pressure was off and I slowly took over Barb Cities as well as AIs, with Napoleon and Shaka being earlier victims, then Ragnar being next before he pulled too far ahead in the lead.

I vassalled everyone except for Brennus, who stubbornly refused to capitulate. So, instead, I spammed Cities all over the map. It would have taken 5 game turns just to switch a single Civic at the end of the game.

City Capture Gold and saved Gold reserves allowed me to spam Cities, but eventually the horrid economy caught up with me and my units went into Strike on the last turn of the game, just as I triggered Domination. I could have probably avoided the Strike with a Golden Age, but my needed Great Person arrived on the last turn of the game prior to winning, so I just Lightbulbed techs with the Great People instead and let the Strike happen.

France suffered even more than I did from the Barbs, having lost multiple Cities, including having Paris ransacked and razed.
 
My old PC died in mid-September, so after buying a new computer and figuring out how to get Civ 4 to run under Windows 8 (with a lot of help from an old civfanatics thread by kiwitt) this was my first chance to play an GOTM in a month and a half. :)

I achieved a Domination victory in 1878, with 25,833 points. The Great Wall was a big help to me in this game. I completed it in 1540 BC, just barely in time, since one barb had already come pillaging my improvements. After that, it was a relief to sit back and watch them bother all the AI. (This became even more apparent watching the recap at game's end, when I saw that at least two AI lost cities to the barbs.)

I expanded slowly (partly because of that early investment in the GW, partly because of Epic speed), only going to war in 1412. (Ragnar asked for my help against Brennus, then Ragnar made peace with him as soon as I went to war! :mad: ) I vassalized the Celts in 1706.

Following that, I went to war with the French, destroying them in 1780 (actually, Brennus got the kill credit for razing the last French city). Then it was Hannibal's turn to be vassalized in 1832, followed by Ragnar in in 1846.

Shaka had become a Persian vassal earlier in the game, so attacked both of them next, with the Zulu being destroyed in 1862, followed by Cyrus becoming my vassal in the same year.

I never figured out the AI personalities, but I'll have to say this about Genghis: he had guts! As soon as Cyrus capitulated, Genghis declared war on me and all four of my vassals! The conquest of Mongolia was proceeding well, but Genghis stubbornly refused to capitulate until the Domination limit was met in 1878.
 
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