Would this be an accurate way to portray human society through the ages?

Joij21

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1.) Tribal Era
2.) Hegemonic Era
3.) Absolutionist Era---------> Godking status if never opposed (if opposed later society devolves back to tribalism)
----if-opposed-early----
4.) Aristocratic Era
5.) Reformist Era----------> If reforms are not hijacked true democracy is achieved (if reformists are stopped by elite, society reverts back to aristocratic rule)
----if-opportunists-seize-control----
6.) Imperial Era
----expanding-bureaucracy-from-expanding-empire----
7.) Corrupt Bureaucratic Stratocracy Era-------------> If state fails return to tribalism
----if-strongman-seizes-power-to-prevent-failed-state----
[Return to Absolutionist Era]
 
What would you suggest?

Some places developed far more than others. It should be individual by polity and based on a scale of some sort. We can't even say 'Decentralized to Centralized' - a tribe could be either, and a modern polity can be unitary to confederal to barely existent.

Hell one book basically surmised that up until 1500, China was the premier power in the world (sans gaps), until the West overtook it. How do you measure that in a game? I think it was
Why the West Rules—for Now: The Patterns of History, and What They Reveal About the Future


  • The Social Development Index shows the West leading until the 6th century, China leading until the 18th century, and the West leading again in the modern era.
"Using the four traits of energy capture, organization, war-making capacity, and information technology,-"
 
What about a system based on technological progress? Technology is after all objective due to the laws of nature. Newer technologies are superior objectively to older technologies.
 
What about a system based on technological progress? Technology is after all objective due to the laws of nature. Newer technologies are superior objectively to older technologies.
Technological progress often has very little to do with social complexity. The Northern European Iron Age lasted from about 400 BC through to about 1300 when Europe got the hang of crucible steel (or 1850 when the Bessemer process made steel production reliable). At the same time Spanish conquistadors were wielding razor-sharp swords of Toledo steel and gunpowder, the Aztec society was easily as complex and developed as any in Europe even if ironworking was unknown to them.
 
Technological progress often has very little to do with social complexity. The Northern European Iron Age lasted from about 400 BC through to about 1300 when Europe got the hang of crucible steel (or 1850 when the Bessemer process made steel production reliable). At the same time Spanish conquistadors were wielding razor-sharp swords of Toledo steel and gunpowder, the Aztec society was easily as complex and developed as any in Europe even if ironworking was unknown to them.

Yeah that's why I'm thinking of making a new thread regarding technological progress. I'm trying to brainstorm some civ mod ideas, but at the same time trying to make an era/progression system that's more universal and less Eurocentric than the main franchise.
 
Thats a problem, because any "ages" system that is broad enough to cover the whole world collapses in its own vagueness.
 
Technological progress is not really an objective measure either, outside a handful of specific inventions
 
Technological progress is not really an objective measure either, outside a handful of specific inventions

Well you at least admit that there are objectively some inventions that count as progress. So those specific one's could be used to form a rating system. We have the Kardashev Scale to rate future civilizations, why not one for past and current ones?
 
Well you at least admit that there are objectively some inventions that count as progress. So those specific one's could be used to form a rating system. We have the Kardashev Scale to rate future civilizations, why not one for past and current ones?

Because then you're no longer operating with objectivity. Any measure of "technological progress," such as it is, is necessarily going to entail the construction of a teleology with our present Western capitalist society as the endpoint. But that by definition makes it no longer objective, only subjective according to this specific endpoint. Aside from, like, quinine, the smallpox vaccine, some of the domestication events, and maybe steam-powered transportation, basically every other development is only a progression in respect to some putative endpoint.
 
Any measure of "technological progress," such as it is, is necessarily going to entail the construction of a teleology with our present Western capitalist society as the endpoint.

Society is not technology though. I don't see how a tech rating system would come out with capitalism as the final product when that's not what the scale is measuring.
 

1.) Tribal Era
- I can see how it is plausible, ok.
2.) Hegemonic Era - what is it?
3.) Absolutionist Era - lets call it Tyranny or Monarchist era. Then its a form of government, but over what?
4.) Aristocratic Era - never really existed or never ended. Also depends on what you are talking about. Is this antiquity, medieval era, renaissance?
5.) Reformist Era - assuming that reforms lead to a specific goal is historical determinism, also present in Marxism for example. Reforming towards what, empire?
6.) Imperial Era - Its difference to absolutionist era is the lack of a God Emperor? What about Japan, etc?
7.) Corrupt Bureaucratic Stratocracy Era - corruption is not a government system
[Return to Absolutionist Era]

My guess that all of this is inspired either by Afghanistan or a deeper crisis in modern society, but this explanation lacks defining criteria. What are these, forms of government? reigning political belief systems? chronological order or various forms of contemporary society's government?

To answer your question, no, it is hard.
 
The circle of governments is supposed to be Monarchy (or Tyranny, which meant the monarch was a usurper, not next in line), Oligarchy, Democracy.
They are pretty broad, so still apply, in my view.

As for the current system, it is oligarchy with a facade of democracy.
 
I guess this was an important topic to the OP ;)
 
I guess this was an important topic to the OP ;)

In this game I played - from where my Avatar is from - we had this:

-11 Sentient Age Pre-tool use 50,000 B.C. Tooth and claw
-10 Prehistoric Age Tool use 40,000 B.C. Club, rock Simple art, language
-9 Stone Age Tool construction 30,000 B.C. Hand ax, spear Some construction of simple dwellings
-8 Agricultural Age Farming and animal husbandry 8,000 B.C. Bow, atlatl
-7 Metal Age Smelting of tools and weapons 6,000 B.C. Metal weapons such as swords, axes etc. Construction of fortifications such as forts and castles
-6 Civilization Age First governments 4,000 B.C. Larger weapons such as chariots, catapults, ballistae Writing/religion
-5 Scientific Age Widespread education/literacy 1680 A.D. Early firearms
-4 Fuel Age Steam power, fossil fuels, electrical theory 1769 A.D. Firearms, cannon Factories and specialized production
-3 Machine Age Machine transportation 1889 A.D. Power generation / electromagnetism
-2 Flight Age 1905 A.D. Machine gun, chemical weapons Radio usage
-1 Atomic Age Advanced flight 1945 A.D. Atomic weapons
0 Space Age Early space Travel 1961 A.D. Nuclear weapons Satellites, manned rocket
1 Computer Age Widespread computer usage 1980 A.D. Biologic weapons Reusable spacecraft

2 Communications Age Worldwide computer networks 2000 A.D. "World shrinking" from widely available information
3 Interplanetary Age First off-planet colonies 2050 A.D. Laser weapons Spaceflight is still via chemical propulsion

Of course, there's a helluva big gap between -6 and -5....

The obvious thing would be shove in 'Imperial', 'Feudal' and so on, but that's part of this hurdleto begin with....
 
'Imperial', 'Feudal'

Yeah but Feudalism was a European thing. I kinda like Civilization Age, though I guess one could argue the previous stages; metal, agricultural never really ended. Which is why I feel like those two should be something more specific (like Neolithic, Chalcolithic, Bronze, Iron). Civilization Age to me would represent the first empires and hegemonies of the mid to late Bronze age and beyond.

Maybe a civ could be in the Neolithic, progress to Chalcolithic, Bronze, then Iron technologically but at any time they can advance to Civilization if they conquer another city or vassalize another civ (basically forming a hegemony). Once in the Civilization era they can use new civics/policies/etc. to reflect the new societal complexity that comes with managing an empire/hegemony instead of a tribe/city state. So you could have a civ that maybe only makes it to the Chalcolithic but gets to skip ahead to Civilization if they manage to conquer/vassalize early.

I don't really like Scientific because again that hasn't really ended per say (if anything society has only gotten more scientific since 1680). Transoceanic makes more sense, or even Early Global due to the end of continental isolation taking place during this time. I would also say that in order for a society to advance to this stage they would need to have a certain amount of overseas trade routes, with those choosing to remain isolationist remaining stuck in the previous era (like China or Japan). Again new civics/policies would be available for choosing to enter this stage which would allow for accelerated tech tree progression.

Fuel Age could just be renamed to Industrial, Fuel Age just doesn't sound right. Machine sounds about right since that is one of the names for the Second Industrial Revolution (when electricity was becoming mainstream and Nikola Tesla was in his prime). Alternately these eras could simply be called First Industrial and Second Industrial respectively. You would enter these ages technologically like the Chalcolithic, Bronze and Iron ages instead of through a gameplay decision like Civilization and Transoceanic. Population explodes, pollution and crime runs rampant, societal issues ensue if not properly dealt with (which in a way leads us to the next era).

Post Industrial Age (Instead of Flight Age) which is named to reflect the societal effects post the first two industrial eras. You enter it by choosing an ideology similar to Civ 5 with ideologies such as Autocracy, Liberalism, Socialism, Communism, Fascism, Theocracy, and Nativism (basically ideologies that represent both reactionary and progressive ideas that become more loud during this time due to the massive societal effects caused by industrialization). While some of these ideologies may have existed before this era, this is the era where your society fully embraces one of them and tries to use it in either a reactionary way (to stop the excesses caused by modernization and industrialization) or in a progressive way (to solve certain problems while giving more freedoms to certain individuals who might ruin your imperialistic ambitions/power plays, which ultimately might be needed if you want to achieve a conquest or domination victory but maybe not so much if your going a cultural, diplomatic, or scientific route. In fact progressive ideologies would help those later three).

Global Age (Instead of Atomic) is achieved after a certain amount of trade routes is established globally instead of by an individual civ (like Transoceanic), meaning everyone gets bumped up to this era regardless of what era they are currently in. Those from previous eras lagging behind undergo a culture shock instability and production/economic penalty during this bump up due to being technologically disadvantaged when negotiating international agreements with those who managed to keep up. They can and will however be able to advance their tech research rate ten times faster than those who advanced into the era from the Post Industrial Age. Eventually this culture shock will wear out and their research rate will return to normal like the rest of the Global civs.

After Global Age the Information Age would become a thing. However this era is a bit more exclusive in that your civ needs to be connected to the World Wide Web to enter it. Faster research speeds, early automation, and certain societal problems from hate sites and social reclusion are all things of this era. It's basically the Third Industrial Revolution/Last Era if we don't want the game to go past our contemporary era.

If we want the game to include future eras my best guess would be the next age would be either the Biotech Age or Automation Age. Eras after that would likely be based of off how far humans leave the planet like Interplanetary, Interstellar, Galactic, and then Intergalactic. Or if we feel humans shouldn't be measured by outer space (or we feel we'll never accomplish long distance space travel) then subsequent eras could be Nanotech, Transhuman, Posthuman, and finally Cosmic Cthulhu Astral Horror/Discovery that this was all a Simulation/We become God/s Age.
 
A visual representation of what I was thinking.

FutureCIVProgressionSystem.jpg
 
So all of this was/is for a game? What kind of game were you thinking of?
 
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