>Actually state property gives Workshop +1 food, so
>the max upgrade gives
>the workshop +3 production and no food penalty.
Thanks for the tip. I didn't realize that state property took away the food penalty (I think this isn't in the civilopedia -- at least not in the improvement menu. That would certainly make the workshop much more useful.
>I am currently playing a game on the great plains map.
>And unfortunately it is pretty much what is says..
>a lot of plains. There is very little food bonus squares,
>rivers or hills.
I play mainly pangaea and continent maps, and your point is well taken that those who play maps that are skewed toward a specific, food poor terrain type (great plains, highlands, etc.) may find a much greater need to build farms to meet basic growth or expansion needs.
>It just seems to me that commerce is remarkably easy
> to generate (you can build cottages in any terrain,
>get the tech to do so almost immediatley, and have
>greater control over how it is used) but production is
>kind of a "You're screwed if your city is surrounded by only grasslands and >plains" situation
A good point, demonstrating why city placement is so important. Whenever possible, I build cities on rivers, and try to get at least on special resource (of any kind) within range. Of course this is not always possible (especially on unusual or specialty map types), but if you repeatedly find making cities productive to be challenging, then perhaps it is worth reevaluating your city placement.
The placement of cities is always one of the most important strategic decisions for me in the early and mid game, and I will gladly place a city at significantly further distance from my capital if it results in acquiring special resources or monopolizing a location that is of prime strategic or production value. I didn't really address this much earlier in the thread. Controlling strategic passes or "choke points" with cities is also valuable -- if you can block off your enemies from chunks of unsettled land and then fill it in later, that is a bonus, although the geography doesn't always accommodate this.
I think that the workshop idea presented by tempuraki is a good one, but again you have a food penalty until state property -- so it is more of a "late midgame" improvement than an early game improvement.
>Windmill gets the +1 production from a tech, not state property.
>I think it's electricity, the same one that gives lumbermill +1 production also.
My original post cited was: "Windmill. +1 food, +2 commerce, +1 production with full upgrades (replaceable parts, electricity). Similar in final bonuses to watermill except watermill offers total bonuses of +1 food, +2 commerce, and +2 production, with the last +1 production requiring state property."
This is accurate as is. My post correctly noted that the +1 production bonus with state property is for watermill, not windmill, and that the windmill bonuses require the techs cited and no civics.
>I actually attempt to convert to [free religion] asap simply to stay out of wars.
>Getting free religion often changes furious or annoyed civs to cautious or pleased civs.
>While you also lose the diplomacy bonus for sharing a religion with another civ
>it's almost always impossible to convert everyone to your religion and sooner or
>later you're going to get attacked by at least one of them.
Of course there are two sides to this. Dropping a state religion can pacify opponents, but it can also make former close allies lukewarm or even hostile.
Free religion is a personal taste matter. Personally I find the bonuses of some of the other theology civics far too compelling (the LOS to all cities with religions centered in your territory -- +100% GP from pacifism or +25% building and wonder speed from organized religion are some of the very best civic bonuses in the whole game IMO) to change to one that offers few real bonuses (a slightly improved chance of peace with nations you haven't done your missionary work with). The biggest use of free religion may be on very high difficulty levels where you want to tread on eggshells to avoid antagonizing more powerful AI players, or if for whatever reason you simply don't like to deal with the religious aspect of the game and do not like evangelizing your neighbors. But me, I'd rather take a huge number of extra great people, or much faster building and wonder construction, and use it to decimate my neighbors when they do declare war. Heh, heh.
>You should be doing this against any opponent though.
>Pillage all of their cottages/towns, then go for their high food tiles.
>Pillage the farm/plantations and just fortify on their one or two food bonus tiles.>
Not only do you make money from pillaging, but you can starve the town down,
>which long term is very costly to your opponent. Take a couple good defenders,
> pillage a mine (copper/iron ++) and fortify. Production in that city plummets
>and you have a good defensible spot to ward off attackers.
Has its uses, mainly in situations when you are outmatched or are in a war that looks to be relatively close.
But if I am convinced that I have superior force and can take a city, I don't pillage. Why destroy towns, mills, mines, etc. if you are going to have to rebuild them all in a few turns? Given how long towns take to develop, I am very careful about pillaging them, and do so ONLY when I don't think I can take the city outright during the current war. The one thing better than the extra gold from pillaging is a long-term free revenue source your opponent built for you.
Of course resource denial has its place in CIV just as in C3C. It's important to know your opponents' resources and how many they have. Knock out their iron and copper -- pillage and fortify as suggested -- and guess what? No more swordsmen, macemen, spearmen, etc., etc. This can really win a war by knocking your enemy's military quite literally from the middle ages back to the stone age.
this goes for other resources as well. Snag a couple enemy luxury resources -- destroy roads, improvements, etc-- and suddenly revolting pops will crop up all over his empire. etc. etc.
The farmer would get rich in no time after having launched a timing war. Another great design in Civ4!
