W.i.n.t.e.r
Frozen!
Fcuk !!!! looks bloody nice, buddy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wyrmshadow's Battleships
- Thread starter Wyrmshadow
- Start date
MarineCorps
Explosion!
HMS Dreadnought is not the forerunner to the Battle ship. Battleships were around since the late late 19th century. The Dreadnought was the first super battleship made. It made obsolete all other battleships made before it(Ironiclly it also made obsolete Britians navy, considering that this ship was made to put an end to any nations attempt to build a bigger navy then Britians, it had the oppisite effect. Other nations saw it as a chance to catch up to Britian). Afterwards all Battleships came to be known as Dreadnought type ships. It could be however considered the forerunner to the modern Battleship. I think.Sword_Of_Geddon said:
Thorgrimm
Senior Elder
Hey Wyrm, after doing some more research on the Montana, i found out that the Navy also did a study on a Montana with a length of 1050 feet! If you want its dimensions and stats let me know, as i know you have your heart set on that long one. 
Cheers Thorgrimm
Cheers Thorgrimm
warmwaffles
Programmer
Man I would love to see a triple gun deck that would be awsome
Thorgrimm
Senior Elder
DriveByMaster wrote:
I hate to dissappoint you, but even the Montana study that had the length at 1050 ft, still had only the 4 triple 16" turrets. It was faster at 33kts, and thicker armor. It also had a full weight of 80,500 tons.
Cheers Thorgrimm
I hate to dissappoint you, but even the Montana study that had the length at 1050 ft, still had only the 4 triple 16" turrets. It was faster at 33kts, and thicker armor. It also had a full weight of 80,500 tons.
Cheers Thorgrimm
Wyrmshadow
Deity
with the Bismark at 790ft, and all the ships were to be modeled in scale to it... this is how they would all look in game. The Yamato doesnt look so big at 840 ft anymore does it?
W.i.n.t.e.r
Frozen!
WOW 
the Nevada is dwarved by those Super BBs even the Bismarck seems small now
the Nevada is dwarved by those Super BBs even the Bismarck seems small now
Thorgrimm
Senior Elder
W.I.N.T.E.R. wrote:
You are right about that. Get this though, some people still think the Bismarck was the baddest BB ever to float! Talk about misconceptions!
Cheers Thorgrimm
You are right about that.
Get this though, some people still think the Bismarck was the baddest BB ever to float! Talk about misconceptions! Cheers Thorgrimm
Goldflash
Civ III Modder, Civ VII Player
Heh, you want to see a ship Dwarfed? Go to Phildelphia, PA. At the Nautical Meuseum there rests the Battlecruiser Olympia, Admrial Dewey's Spanish-American War Flagship. And Across the River is the Iowa Class New Jersey. Let me tel lyou, the Olymipa looks like a Tug boat compared to that beast!
Another little fact about the USS. New Jersey... it is the Longest Battleship Afloat by Six Inches.
Another little fact about the USS. New Jersey... it is the Longest Battleship Afloat by Six Inches.
W.i.n.t.e.r
Frozen!
the Bismarck was remarkable by the time it was completed- yet it can hardly match the last BBs build- especially its main armament calibre, as well as it lack in AA secondary armament (as well as the problems with the armouring) reveals it a pre-WWII design (namely a development from the Bayern Class). I bet, had the Ship still been afloat in post 1943 and had Germany had resources to spare for a refit the Bismarck class (or the H-class) would have been a better match for the 40s Pacific BBs- EDIT:
Conclusion: Although the Bismarck was completed decades after the Hood the overall design is of the same time period- to compare the Bismarck with the Yamato, Iowa or even a late war KGV (while in 1940 the P. of Whales would have still been outgunned against the Bismarck class) is hence a rather unfair comparison. I wish there was an H-Class (but I doubt there is a model of one)
Go here for a detailed comparison between the BB Flagships of World War II http://www.combinedfleet.com/baddest.htm
MarineCorps
Explosion!
Goldflash said:
Battlecruiser?
The ship was a cruiser.
Thorgrimm
Senior Elder
W.I.N.T.E.R. wrote:
I hate to bust your bubble, but if you want to get into BBs never completed, look at these stats. The H class would have been in serious trouble if she had run into the Montana.
German H class
Displacement:
55,453t standard; 62,497 deep load
Dimensions:
872ft wl, 911ft 5in oa x 122ft x 33ft 6in
Machinery:
3-shafts, 12 MAN double-acting 2-stroke 9cyl diesels,
165,000shp = 30kts
Armor:
belt 11.75in-7in, deck3.25in-2in, armored deck 4.75in-4in,
torpedo bulkhead 1.75in,armored bulkheads 8.75in,
main turrets 15.25-5in, secondary turrets 4in-1.5in, CT 15.25in
Armament:
8-16in/47 (4x2), 12-5.9in/55 (6x2), 16-4.1in/65 DP (8x2),
16-37mm/83 AA (8x2), 24-20mm AA (6x4),
6-21in TT (submerged), 4 aircraft
Complement:
2600 (estimated)
Montana Class
Displacement:
60,500t standard; 70,500t full load
Dimensions:
890ft wl, 925ft oa x 121ft x 36ft 8in full load
Machinery:
4-shaft turbines, 8 boilers, 172,000shp = 28kts
full load. Oil 7300t, range 15,000nm at 15kts
Armor:
Belt 16.1in-10.2in on 1in STS, internal belt 7.2in-1in,
armor deck 6in-7.35in with 2.25 in weather deck and
.62-.75in splinter deck, bulkheads 15.3in, barbettes
18in-21.3in, turrets 22.5in face, 9.15in roof, 10in side,
12in rear, CT 18in with 7.25in roof
Armament:
12-16in/50 (4x3), 20-5in/54 DP (10x2), 32-40mm AA
(8x4), 20-20mm AA (20x1), 3 aircraft
Complement:
2149
These were alleged to have been, in effect, enlarged Bismarcks. Certainly, their specifications and general layout do nothing to refute this. The areas of improvement would have been in their diesel machinery, and their 16in guns.
They seem to have retained the Bismarck class faults of single purpose secondary guns, and poorly distributed armor. They also retain the Bismarck's greatest fault, the placement of the armored deck too low in the ship to protect her vital fire control and communications links. Certainly the reversion to underwater torpedo tubes, an obsolete feature that severely compromises a ship's watertight integrity, was a mistake.
Presumably, the 'H' class also preserved the greatest advantages of the previous classes: the minute internal subdivision which made them so difficult to sink, excellent fire control, a steady gun platform (likely, given the beam of these ships), and excellent anti-torpedo protection.
Like the Bismarcks and Scharnhorsts before them, the 'H' class do not seem to have taken full advantage of their displacement. On a displacement nearly 15,000 tons heavier than the Lions they manage to carry one less 16in gun and lighter armor. On the plus side, their diesel engines should have given them much greater range than the British ships (the Germans were very aware of their lack of overseas refueling bases).
the Montanas were a magnificent design. The American 16in/50 gun was probably the best battleship gun ever produced. It threw the super heavy 2700lb armor piercing shell 42,345 yards. For comparison, the Japanese 18.1in/45 gun threw a 3200lb armor piercing shell 45,960 yards. The American gun weighed less, allowing the Montanas to carry 12 of them, for a broadside weight of 32,400lbs. The Yamatos could only carry nine of the 18.1in guns on a similar size hull with similar armor and speed. Yamato's broadside weight was 28,800lbs. The Montanas were the only battleships seriously proposed that out gunned the Yamatos.
As Wyrm stated and i reiterate, the Montana would have been the greatest BB EVER produced.
The sketch is the German H class
Cheers Thorgrimm
I hate to bust your bubble, but if you want to get into BBs never completed, look at these stats. The H class would have been in serious trouble if she had run into the Montana.
German H class
Displacement:
55,453t standard; 62,497 deep load
Dimensions:
872ft wl, 911ft 5in oa x 122ft x 33ft 6in
Machinery:
3-shafts, 12 MAN double-acting 2-stroke 9cyl diesels,
165,000shp = 30kts
Armor:
belt 11.75in-7in, deck3.25in-2in, armored deck 4.75in-4in,
torpedo bulkhead 1.75in,armored bulkheads 8.75in,
main turrets 15.25-5in, secondary turrets 4in-1.5in, CT 15.25in
Armament:
8-16in/47 (4x2), 12-5.9in/55 (6x2), 16-4.1in/65 DP (8x2),
16-37mm/83 AA (8x2), 24-20mm AA (6x4),
6-21in TT (submerged), 4 aircraft
Complement:
2600 (estimated)
Montana Class
Displacement:
60,500t standard; 70,500t full load
Dimensions:
890ft wl, 925ft oa x 121ft x 36ft 8in full load
Machinery:
4-shaft turbines, 8 boilers, 172,000shp = 28kts
full load. Oil 7300t, range 15,000nm at 15kts
Armor:
Belt 16.1in-10.2in on 1in STS, internal belt 7.2in-1in,
armor deck 6in-7.35in with 2.25 in weather deck and
.62-.75in splinter deck, bulkheads 15.3in, barbettes
18in-21.3in, turrets 22.5in face, 9.15in roof, 10in side,
12in rear, CT 18in with 7.25in roof
Armament:
12-16in/50 (4x3), 20-5in/54 DP (10x2), 32-40mm AA
(8x4), 20-20mm AA (20x1), 3 aircraft
Complement:
2149
These were alleged to have been, in effect, enlarged Bismarcks. Certainly, their specifications and general layout do nothing to refute this. The areas of improvement would have been in their diesel machinery, and their 16in guns.
They seem to have retained the Bismarck class faults of single purpose secondary guns, and poorly distributed armor. They also retain the Bismarck's greatest fault, the placement of the armored deck too low in the ship to protect her vital fire control and communications links. Certainly the reversion to underwater torpedo tubes, an obsolete feature that severely compromises a ship's watertight integrity, was a mistake.
Presumably, the 'H' class also preserved the greatest advantages of the previous classes: the minute internal subdivision which made them so difficult to sink, excellent fire control, a steady gun platform (likely, given the beam of these ships), and excellent anti-torpedo protection.
Like the Bismarcks and Scharnhorsts before them, the 'H' class do not seem to have taken full advantage of their displacement. On a displacement nearly 15,000 tons heavier than the Lions they manage to carry one less 16in gun and lighter armor. On the plus side, their diesel engines should have given them much greater range than the British ships (the Germans were very aware of their lack of overseas refueling bases).
the Montanas were a magnificent design. The American 16in/50 gun was probably the best battleship gun ever produced. It threw the super heavy 2700lb armor piercing shell 42,345 yards. For comparison, the Japanese 18.1in/45 gun threw a 3200lb armor piercing shell 45,960 yards. The American gun weighed less, allowing the Montanas to carry 12 of them, for a broadside weight of 32,400lbs. The Yamatos could only carry nine of the 18.1in guns on a similar size hull with similar armor and speed. Yamato's broadside weight was 28,800lbs. The Montanas were the only battleships seriously proposed that out gunned the Yamatos.
As Wyrm stated and i reiterate, the Montana would have been the greatest BB EVER produced.
The sketch is the German H class
Cheers Thorgrimm
MarineCorps
Explosion!
Thorgrimm said:As Wyrm stated and i reiterate, the Montana would have been the greatest BB EVER produced.
Cheers Thorgrimm
Bet the Brits wouldn't be to happy about that.
W.i.n.t.e.r
Frozen!
Cool- where did you get all this info love it (was it you that posted about several never-built BBs in some other thread- couldn't find it yesterday)
Still, after the sinking of the Bismarck revealing the all so obvious discrepances in outline and thinckness of the armour belt, the plans for a new H-class would certainly be overworked. Considering progress of the allies larger calibre gun turrets would surely have been installed (including a targeting system that would be up to date by the time it would have been completed)- certainly the Montana would still be superior in design and implementation than even an overworked H-class plan, the gap might have become smaller though. I'd love to see that ship
love it (was it you that posted about several never-built BBs in some other thread- couldn't find it yesterday)Still, after the sinking of the Bismarck revealing the all so obvious discrepances in outline and thinckness of the armour belt, the plans for a new H-class would certainly be overworked. Considering progress of the allies larger calibre gun turrets would surely have been installed (including a targeting system that would be up to date by the time it would have been completed)- certainly the Montana would still be superior in design and implementation than even an overworked H-class plan, the gap might have become smaller though. I'd love to see that ship
Wyrmshadow
Deity
I may be able to do the H-class the same way I did the Montana but I'm not making any promisses. It would mean ripping out most of the super structure and stretching it out by quite a bit, and adding another funnel. But It would be a much larger stretch than the Iow-Montana conversion. The Bismark was 790ft, the H-class was 911ft long.
W.i.n.t.e.r
Frozen!
Thorgrimm
Senior Elder
W.I.N.T.E.R. wrote:
Yeah that was me. It was on Recon's private discussion thread for SOP called naval listings. Just did a lot of research, but all of the info on those ships pretty much confirmed that the H class kept the bad design flaws of the Bismarck class. The too low armor belt to protect the fire control, and the dumb decision to add torp tubes underwater!!!! 
Btw the first of the class was laid down in 39, so the design was already accepted, even with those flaws.
And i would love to see the H class Also, along with the two other never finished super BBs i talked about on Recon's thread.
Cheers Thorgrimm
Yeah that was me.
It was on Recon's private discussion thread for SOP called naval listings. Just did a lot of research, but all of the info on those ships pretty much confirmed that the H class kept the bad design flaws of the Bismarck class. The too low armor belt to protect the fire control, and the dumb decision to add torp tubes underwater!!!! Btw the first of the class was laid down in 39, so the design was already accepted, even with those flaws.
And i would love to see the H class Also, along with the two other never finished super BBs i talked about on Recon's thread.
Cheers Thorgrimm
W.i.n.t.e.r
Frozen!
Cheers Thorgrimm, do you have a ling to that thread handy ??
Wyrmshadow
Deity
Hindenburg class compared to the Bismark
Wyrmshadow
Deity
And a real ugly bugger.
HMS Rodney...only two ships of this class made. The Rodney and Nelson.
HMS Rodney...only two ships of this class made. The Rodney and Nelson.
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