Yet another model for science and research (featuring probability of discoveries)

SaiH

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Based on quite a number of dicussions on research and science I would like to contribute my thoughts:

The problem with research in Civilization seems to be to combine (i) the possibility to plan and work out strategies and (ii) a more realistic discovery-like research with random and cicumstance-influenced elements.

A time ago, I already suggested a mixed research model in a German forum.
My suggestion was to have two different types of research: (a) basic research wich leads to discovery of basic knowledge and (b) practical research wich leads to specific technologies that unlock units, buildings, benefits, promotions etc.
(a) would be based on probability i.e. there is a probability to discover something in the next turn. This probability is calculated based on several variables like environnement (available ressources, terrain), general science investment and player-regulated emphasis on the specific base discoveries, known Civilizations that already have discovered the respective knowledge, trade routes, duration of research in this domain, espionage etc.
(b) would be quite like the research we know so far - once a basic discovery is made, a sub-techtree is unlocked and can be followed as far one needs it.
(a) and (b) are regulated separately, so there is always (1) basic research and (2) a current tech research project although the player still can emphasise (a) or (b) in a certain range.

A second issue is that in this model each era has a certain number of basic knowledge/techs that must be discovered to be able to progress to the next era but the single sub-techtrees can be researched as far as they are needed. This means that one has not to invest specific research in a techtree that unlocks naval vessels when you are located in the middle of a vast landmass. But one can always catch up on that later on if needed. Of course there may be interdependencies between sub-techtrees of same and/or different eras albeit I would suggest not to have to much of them.
I.e. one can progress quite quick through the eras, but one has not much benefits of that because you have to research along the sub-techtrees to unlock units etc.

Also, in this model techtrade would make absolute sense albeit I would suggest that techtrades should take some transfer time depending on the cost of the tech (not quite like research-agreements in Civ5 but somewhat related to that).

The major advantages of this model are (in my opinion):
- a quite new research model in Civilization that is admittedly not too far away from the traditional techtree-model but brings a new and refreshing probability factor in the game without to much crippling the strategic research planning
- the game gets a bit less research centered because the basic research rate is also influenced/increased by the tech level of the surrounding civs, so one cannot really get completely outteched. Still the sub-techtrees need to be researched or gained via trade which means science and research do not lose their importance.
- the techtree gets more techs which, however, need not to be researched if not needed (an probably cannot be researched because of their quantity anyway), at the same time the player gets more possibilities to specialise and focus. So, the techtree or research alltogether gets less linear.
 

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I'm not sure wether my suggestion is just not interesting enough or my description or language lacks clarity.
Comments would really be appreciated.
 
Would specific research "branches" end with a new base tech for a different tree, or do they require prerequisite techs? It would make an interesting model, if the details could be ironed out.
 
I love the idea of changing up tech in Civilization, it's really the the only system in the game that is for the most part untouched since Civ 1.I do like your ideas I think, I know how it can be to have an idea for a game like civilization, when it actually comes to describing your ideas to others it can get really tricky to explain clearly.

For me right now, Civ feels too cookie cutter. by that I mean, if I play a specific Civ, honestly by the end of the game that Civ will look almost identical to every other time I played it. What I want from a new tech system is to have it taken out of my control a little to make me think about how I'm going to make my civ thrive given the challenges set before me, but in current Civ I feel like I pretty much know my strategy before I start my game.

I don't want to get into to many specific game systems and how they might work, ideas change and evolve and usually look totally different than first described so I like to stick with broader ideas and let other people work with that.

Tech in future games should in my opinion be made more random, like in reality, but I definitely think it should be influenced with what you do.

One idea I had for example is that at the very beginning of the game you should be forced to research only what is in your environment, if you are next to water you will get sailing, lots of hills, you get mining, lots of animals will get you animal husbandry. and maybe by working the mines you could discover further related technologies like bronze/iron working and masonry, building and using lots of boats will lead you to further naval techs. I'm not sure if such a system could really work throughout an entire game, it may break down in the late game, but I think a system like that sounds fun. I think a tech system like that will help make a game of civ feel more personal, like my civ is really my own creation and not so cookie cutter.
 
Like I mentioned in the thread Technological Research, I strongly suggest a major change to the current scientific research system.
New system, according to me, would include random scientific research results upon completion of each new project, providing an exciting and unpredictable results.
All advances available for research would be divided into 6 to 8 categories, or Fields of Science.
These I have named (for now): MILITARY, ECONOMIC, AGRICULTURAL, NAVAL, INDUSTRIAL, POLITICAL, SCIENTIFIC, and perhaps another which I don't recall right now.
EVERY TIME YOU START NEW RESEARCH YOU WOULD PICK THE FIELD OF SCIENCE YOU WANT YOUR WISE MEN TO RESEARCH, NOT A SPECIFIC ADVANCE.
THE RESULTS COULD VARY, THERE MIGHT NOT BE ANY AVAILABLE ADVANCE AT THE TIME AND THE FIELD WOULD BE DISPLAYED IN A GRAY COLOR, FORCING YOU TO ORDER RESEARCH IN A DIFFERENT FIELD, THERE COULD ALSO BE ONE, TWO OR EVEN 5-6 AVAILABLE ADVANCES IN THE FIELD YOU HAVE PICKED, YOU WOULD NOT KNOW WHICH ADVANCE YOU'D GET AS A RESULT.
I believe this is the way to go to make the research really interesting and unpredictable, this would scrap the current tech tree, only displaying the techs you've already discovered.
Examples of ancient era military technologies/advances available in the game, (advance available in previous civ's):
MILITARY: (Warrior Code)-would enable axemen, Archery-archers, Bronze-Spearman, Chariotry-Chariots and Chariot Archers-with archery, Horseback Riding-Horseman
Tree: Warrior Code- prerequisite none, Archery-pre.-warrior code, Bronze- pre-warrior code, Charitotry-pre.-Animal Domestication and The Wheel, Horseback Riding- pre-Animal Domestication and Chariotry
Wonder what you all think, those who've read thread Technological Research this post might not interest too much. I'm now aware that a similar tech model is used in the game Alpha Centauri.
 
I've read that thread and I'd also like to see a certain amount of probability in research that reflects an element of uncertainty and takes into account environnement-factors etc.
But as I said, the strategic element should not completly be replaced by random and that's the reason why I suggested a hybrid model with new probability-based elements and the classic civ-like research.
 
But what happens when you discover a theory that you have no use (sailing in the middle of a landmass) and other branches are not available ? This part of your science is at 0 ?

I have suggested a more simple but close idea by the past, it is to have a classical tech tree, but a lot more ramified and that those ramifications end dead : like sub-techs. This way you would have the choice of continuing the "big" branches or waste time into detailling them, for having a tech edge when you are ready for an invasion for example.

I would tend to propose something more realistic nowadays though, like dividing science into theory and practice. When the two meet you have a tech. Would be harrassing to set a practical tech tree and a theorical one though, as the ideas in every of their aspects are so numerous and of various importance. I would more tend to have a "practice" bar that fills up with time and cannot never go down, and something theoric that makes ideas rise according to needs and necessity, citizens mentality and social practices of their times. (sponsorship, funding, scientific institutions like monasteries, none (barbarians looting), etc.)
 
i still think this wouldnt allow for how advances sometimes travelled in the real world with trade routes
 
I have suggested a more simple but close idea by the past, it is to have a classical tech tree, but a lot more ramified and that those ramifications end dead : like sub-techs. This way you would have the choice of continuing the "big" branches or waste time into detailling them, for having a tech edge when you are ready for an invasion for example.

This is also a model that I like very much. In summary, I would really like to see a combination of a linear tech tree and some kind of a ramified and non-linear tech web for detailling each tech.
These additional possibilties to detail your knowlegde in certain techs could partially replace bonuses from social policies or interact with them.
 
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