[LP] Yongle vs. Unifier Qin: Who Is More Game Breaking?

[Deadly Dog]

Yongle is not game-breaking in the sense that every game is a foregone conclusion (he's vulnerable early), but he undeniably has an absurd advantage if he gets a few 10+ cities - it's just math. Science, culture AND 2 Gold per pop is simply too much of a bonus. He would be a pretty strong leader with one of those.

I think of Yongle this way: you get 3 governor titles (researcher, connoisseur and tax collector) in every city that reaches size 10, so, eventually, all of them.

The projects are definitely useful when needed (pantheon, growing from 9-10, unlocking new district, etc).

Yongle doesn't compensate for a poor production start but adds massively to a really good start. Any city that deserves Temple of Artemis deserves it 10x more with Yongle.

 

[Navelgazer]

But most people play Barbarian Clans right?

I might once Rulers of China finally comes to Mac. As for now, I generally have only messed around with it when playing with Gorgo. For whatever singular data point, my own standard modes that I play with are Secret Societies, Dramatic Ages, Heroes and Legends, Monopolies and Corporations.

 

[blackbutterfly]

Finally official acknowledgement Qin is King!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1620137954718134273

@boesthius did a no settle Qin domination challenge.
Easy peasy!

 

[blackbutterfly]

A challenge then:

Unifier Qin (+clans mode) vs. Yongle, alt Qin, Wu Zetian, Kublai Khan (China) and Tokugawa(?) on snowflake.
(There are almost enough leaders to play a China only snowflake map!)

Deity. Marathon.

I developed a map especially for this challenge and Qin
(Scrambled China - it is in fact a port of Firaxis legend Bob Thomas' China map from Civ V Scrambled Nations DLC!)

Qin + Zombies = walkover

 

[Kotofei]

I think "game breaking" is way overused when it comes to this game. Sometimes, someone rolls a perfect start, and they have a perfect map, and then they use the OP modes that just make their civ bigger... and then they declare it's "game breaking".

Hammurabi can mess things up pretty badly by introducing mid-game units way early.

 

[blackbutterfly]

Hammurabi can mess things up pretty badly by introducing mid-game units way early.

Yeah.

But as Qin you just move onto the next one.
I play testing my new map Scrambled China as Qin eventually steamrolled Babylon (and resurrected him) for a culture win.

 

[AntSou]

Everyone already agreed Qin will steamroll anyone with Zombie mode on.

 

[blackbutterfly]

Everyone already agreed Qin will steamroll anyone with Zombie mode on.

I thought I shard this YouTube with you?

No zombies, no settle challenge as Qin.

Even in barb clans mode Qin is exploitable.
Even WITHOUT any barbarian mode (clans and/or zombies) Qin is exploitable.

I say exploitable b'cos you have to know what you're doing.

 

[Finvola]

Ooh I'll give that a watch. I saw Inquisitive Otter's the other day where he did no barb clans/no zombies on standard speed but he lost to a religious victory.

 

[blackbutterfly]

Ooh I'll give that a watch. I saw Inquisitive Otter's the other day where he did no barb clans/no zombies on standard speed but he lost to a religious victory.

Yeah, the start can be hit or miss with Qin.

Potato is doing another Qin run:

(And as Qin you may want to play tall rather than an early expansion like Potato. Because you want barbs to spawn and swarm).

 

[blackbutterfly]

Everyone already agreed Qin will steamroll anyone with Zombie mode on.

I wanted to test out Qin in non clans or zombies modes.

Yes, he is still exploitable because barbs in regular game are crazy how they spawn.
This guy is your best friend:


Qin unified China dominating all other China leaders. Deity. Marathon.

Play tall (b'cos barbs need unsettled lands to spawn). Raze cities.

PotatoMcWhiskey did another run as Qin. A "Tall Build" as he called it:

 

[Abaxial]

I can't say I find Yongle very game breaking; the two times I have tried him I have done less well than usual.