You've grown to powerful for us!

Aedivian

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
17
This keeps happening in my games, my vassals break off from me with the reason that I've grown to powerful for them.

This do no seem logical. A vassal should feel secure and comfortable having a master that is one of the most powerful on earth protecting them.

If it was the opposite, that they break of because I've grown to weak too be able to protect them I can understand, but not when I'm so powerful no one will even dare look at my vassals wrong without getting beat down.

In a game I played with 18 ai's there was 3 superpowers, me and 3 others. we each had many vassals and one permanent ally each. I had 5, but all of a sudden they kept breaking off from me almost at the same time saying I had grown to powerfull for them. And they would not accept my defensive pact or vassal offers because it was redded out with the same reason.

So the punishment for betraying me after I had protected them the whole game (and fear that they might become vassals to the 2 other superpowers instead which was my rivals) I invaded them all and annihilated them for good, razing all their cities.

It was pretty bitter seeing as I had fed my 5 vassals with troops, units, given them loads of gold to build them up and given them all my techs , and they had large countries so they where great powers much thanks to me. If I hadnt looked after them they woulda gotten smashed by the other superpowers.

What gives? I dont think a nation should be able to break the vassalage unless the vassal is almost equal to the master, or if the master cant protect the vassal in a war.
 
im not sure what to say about the mechanic.

I have attacked opponent civs in order to free their vassals but i have never seen a vassal leave me for being to good for it.

having said that. I think that if you simply beat them down a little you can force a capitulation vassalage which is more secure and does not requre you to raze their cities.

I think you can even force a capitulation then liberate their cities if you dont really want them. they will remain vassals.

of course there is always a slight chance that an opponent can offer them a sweet deal while your beating up on them but if you have been treating them well for a while they are less likley to join some one else even in the midst of a war.
 
Could it be that you were close to domination? In such a case, maybe they broke off so that you don't achieve the pop/land percentage for this victory to occur. Otherwise, yeah, it is weird.
 
If you really are a superpower, just force them to capitulate.
 
I've had peacevassals walk on me when we are at war with multiple nations. That's usually not very smart since that will cause me to DoW on them and make them a forced vassal, while they also get torn apart by the others.
 
If you really are a superpower, just force them to capitulate.

Like I wrote on my first thread, the option to make them vassal agian , capitulate , or form a defensive pact is redded out with the text "You've grown to powerful for us" so this is not an option.

And I am a superpower since I can invade 5 great powers with same tech as me (since i fed them) with a strong military and defense, then raze all their cities. But they still wouldnt capitulate , not even when they had 1 city left.

And no I dont think they broke off the vasselage due to not wanting to let me win domination, because I was not close to doing that. The 2 other superpowers had 5 vassals each aswell and they was close to equal with me in landmass and population.
 
Yet another AI bias. How often do you see an AI break off from its AI master for any length of time, even when said master is only 10% short of domination?

It's the game screwing us over a bit. Just have to work through it...
 
Like I wrote on my first thread, the option to make them vassal agian , capitulate , or form a defensive pact is redded out with the text "You've grown to powerful for us" so this is not an option.

And I am a superpower since I can invade 5 great powers with same tech as me (since i fed them) with a strong military and defense, then raze all their cities. But they still wouldnt capitulate , not even when they had 1 city left.

And no I dont think they broke off the vasselage due to not wanting to let me win domination, because I was not close to doing that. The 2 other superpowers had 5 vassals each aswell and they was close to equal with me in landmass and population.


No, by forcing them to capitulate, i mean DoW on them, take a few cites and beat up their units, then go to the diplomacy menu and there will be an option for "capitulation" if you have beaten them up enough
 
No, by forcing them to capitulate, i mean DoW on them, take a few cites and beat up their units, then go to the diplomacy menu and there will be an option for "capitulation" if you have beaten them up enough

You're not reading what I write do you? After they break off from the vasselage, it is NOT POSSIBLE to make the capitulate NO MATTER how many cities of theirs I take or raze. The "capitulate" option is grey and when I hover over it with the mouse it says "You've grown too powerfull for us" so instead they choose utter destruction.

But as another poster said, it is probably one of those AI bias things. I've never seen vassals break off from their AI masters no matter how high military score, population or landmass they have.

I googled it and I see there was a thread about this thing 2 years ago aswell :
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=4938609
 
Well, at least they haven't vassalized to someone else... yet

Civ 1: You know, I don't feel like surrendering to my former master, want to vassalize me and declare war on the human?
Civ 2: Why would I do that? My army is weaker, I like the human, and there's no guarantee you'll just walk out on me too. Isn't that utterly ******** and defies all common sense, serving no purpose other than to screw the player over?
Civ 1: Yea
Civ 2: K, let's do it. And while we're at it, I'll give you all my technology for free, so you can run away for a space/culture win and no benefit to myself.

:p
 
I've lost count of how many times... how many reasons... why we need to avoid taking peacevassals.
 
It's just 'one of those things'. It makes no logical sense and it's only in there to make life harder on the human player... But there's nothing to do but know the mechanic exists, never feed peacevassals tech/troops, and always be ready to beat them down and make them capitulatory vassals or just kill them.
 
Oh, I don't know. Mansa asked for vassalization very early in my last game. I fed him, and he researched several techs for me before the game got too buggy to not crash every turn. I think the BAT3 mod may have destabilized my game, since I never had this problem before installing it.

That's the only time I was ever able to vassalize him without beating him down first (usually he becomes someone else's vassal), and the first time I got a vassal which didn't border me or any of my vassals (in fact, I had no vassals).
 
I never had a peace vassal break off from me because I'm too powerful. My vassal is normally Saladin, does this affect anything? I've seen civilizations who don't want to be my vassal because I was too powerful but I'd never have a civ break off because of it.

I agree with OKScientist's post at the start. I think this is caused by being too close to domination
 
I never peace vassal. It's an absolutely broken mechanic and utterly annoys me.
 
There's one thing I'm always afraid of though. The one thing worse than a peacevassal is some civ randomly peacevassling to someone else if you don't accept.

Of course, I usually just test their loyalty by immediately plotting for war. The +relations bonus for mutual war usually helps them stay as well as slowing them down. Then again, I usually don't protect vassals, I just use them as shields. :p Such is the fate as those who are trying to hide.
 
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