ZOMG Impis!

[vormuir]

Drew Shaka for the first time ever yesterday. Decided to try an Impi rush...

Holy CRUD are those little guys powerful. I started on a continent with four neighbors; by ~200 AD I have just one. My biggest problem now is that I've razed so many cities, half the continent is still empty; my economy is still recovering, and the surviving AI may colonize before I do...

Still, that's a better problem than being boxed in!

Some thoughts:

1) The Impi is probably the best pillaging unit in the game. That's because it fears nothing but Swords and Axes, and it's easy to unplug the enemy's metals in the first turn or two of war. (It helps that Shaka starts with Hunting and a Scout -- he's likely to see most of the map early.)

2) The Impi's ability to move and pillage, move and pillage means that you can rapidly disconnect the enemy's road network, isolating his cities for destruction one at a time. The AI will often try to rush units to threatened cities; if you've ripped up the roads, they have to walk overland, which lets you pick them off on open ground. I probably killed half a dozen Archers this way.

3) The Impi is an early unit -- you can beeline to Bronze Working and start building them as soon as your copper is hooked up. I was cranking them out before I had my third city.

4) The Impi synergizes well with the Aggressive trait, which lets Shaka chop or whip early barracks for half price. (I won't even go into the Ikhanda business, except to note that the Ikhanda is a pretty nice UB.) Shaka can be cranking out Level 2 Impis and Axes while the AIs are still finding their feet.

5) Purely by accident, I stumbled on an amusing tactic. Mehmet was my first target, and I trashed his horses early. Well, it turned out he had a second source of horses, way back on the other side of his empire. By the third or fourth turn of the war, it was the only strategic resource left to him.

So... he built Chariots! Instead of concentrating on Archers for defense, he mixed them with Chariots 50-50. Of course, every time a Chariot poked out of a city, an Impi jumped it for a free xp...

6) The Impi is, relatively speaking, one of the most powerful UUs. That's because the Impi has two advantages -- an extra point of movement /and/ Mobility. Here it compares favorably to the Keshik (mobility but no extra move) or the Musketeer (extra move but not mobility).

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the Impi is in the second rank of UUs, just below Praets. Maybe my first experience with them wasn't typical, but I was pretty wowed.

It helped that my expectations were low. "Oh, a two-move Spearman. Like a Musketeer. Big deal." Well, the Mobility makes a huge difference! And then, unlike the Musketeer, the Impi has a bonus vs. cavalry and can get some decent promotions.

Most of you probably know all this stuff already. Still: Impis. Whoa.


Waldo

 

[madscientist]

I will not argue how valuable the Impi is. I think combining certain leader with their UU's make them better. Here are some examples although I think the Indian Fast Worker is the best UU in the game, but it is an oddity.

1) Julius Prats. His organized trait allows him to control the land he conquers without killing the economy.
2) Churchhill Redcoats. Whether upgraded CR maces (with added +25% vs. gunpowder) or new units (CGI, Drill I, usually 2 free additional, +25% vs gunpowder) they ge tthe benefit of faster promotions because of being charismatic.
3) Alexander's Phalynx. Absolutley no counter until HA's. LIke the vanilla, prepatch axemen.
4) German Panzers. Late I know, but no good counter (anti-tanks are too easily countered), last throughout the game, Gunships come too late in the game now to counter them.
5) Cyrus Immortals. They get defensive bonus and kill archers. They even last throughout the longbow era, and being charismatic/Imperialistic he's a war mongering maniac. Limited to #5 because if he does not start with horse he is in a weakened position.

I am also a fan of the Keshiks.

Do the Impis compare with the above? probably although I usually have little trouble countering them when I go to war against Shaka.

 

[LlamaCat]

Interesting, I think they are very powerful. I tend to think the earlier the unit and the less it relies on a particular resource, the more powerful it can be.

I'm often confused by the Mobility promotion and how it's any different than having a movement point...?

 

[madscientist]

Interesting, I think they are very powerful. I tend to think the earlier the unit and the less it relies on a particular resource, the more powerful it can be.

I'm often confused by the Mobility promotion and how it's any different than having a movement point...?

I think the movement point is how far they can go in one turn, and Mobility is that it has -1 to terrain cost

Example, Impai can go from a grassland, through a jungle and end in another grassland or jungle. They cannot start on a grassland, go through a forrested hill (2 terrain costs) and end on the gassland, but not 100% certain. Mobility can be saved during promotions, another big Zulu benefit bit the extra movement point does not carry over.

Something like the Keshik is immune to terrain, so they can move 2 spaces including 2 jungles, or 2 forrested hills. They do not retain the promotion upon promotion.

Musketeers get 2 movement points meaning they can move at the same speed as mounted units, but like mounted units can be impeaded by terrain. It cannot be kept upon promotion.

That's why I think the Impai are valuable, they get 2 different movement type abilities, one of whcih can be carried over upon promotion.

 

[LlamaCat]

I think the movement point is how far they can go in one turn, and Mobility is that it has -1 to terrain cost

thanks that makes sense

Mobility can be saved during promotions, another big Zulu benefit bit the extra movement point does not carry over.

do you mean the extra movement point will not stick if you "upgrade" the spearman to something else? so for example the Impi upgrades to Pikeman, and if I do that the unit goes back to 1 movement point?

 

[madscientist]

do you mean the extra movement point will not stick if you "upgrade" the spearman to something else? so for example the Impi upgrades to Pikeman, and if I do that the unit goes back to 1 movement point?

Yes, you are correct. Any UU that has an ability loses it upon promotion unless it is a free promotion.

Another example

Samuri lose their 2 extra first strikes upon promotion but the Ethiopian Oromi keep the free drill promition.

 

[Florian]

Some months ago on a thread about the most powerful civilizations, someone made a hilarious post about how the Zulus could take all comers, in which every point depended on the Impis. I think it might have been Polycrates? Anyone know what I'm talking about, and where this post might be found?

 

[LlamaCat]

Yes, you are correct. Any UU that has an ability loses it upon promotion unless it is a free promotion.

Another example

Samuri lose their 2 extra first strikes upon promotion but the Ethiopian Oromi keep the free drill promition.

now I'm completely confused... you are saying promotion but you mean upgrade? what is a "free promotion"?
why would the Samuri lose their first strikes but Oromi keep their drill if upgraded? I don't see the difference. these are all unique abilities these units get. I thought in the current ALC game they were talking about having Berskers with their unique abilities that they can later use when upgraded to higher units (city attack, amphibious)

 

[Gliese 581]

now I'm completely confused... you are saying promotion but you mean upgrade? what is a "free promotion"?
why would the Samuri lose their first strikes but Oromi keep their drill if upgraded? I don't see the difference. these are all unique abilities these units get. I thought in the current ALC game they were talking about having Berskers with their unique abilities that they can later use when upgraded to higher units (city attack, amphibious)

What he means is, some special units get a free promotion, for example berserkers get amphibious. If a UU has a free promotion it will keep them even as they are upgraded to a more modern type of unit. The samurai however, just says "2 first strikes" written abilities like this that do not depend on the UU having free promotions are not retained when you upgrade the UU.
So the impis will retain their mobility when upgraded since this is a free promotion they get, the extra movement point however is a written ability that does NOT hinge on a promotion, and is therefore lost.
A bit sad actually, I'm currently testing a pangaea 18 civs game with Shaka and retaining the movement bonus after upgrading would have been pretty fun..

 

[madscientist]

What he means is, some special units get a free promotion, for example berserkers get amphibious. If a UU has a free promotion it will keep them even as they are upgraded to a more modern type of unit. The samurai however, just says "2 first strikes" written abilities like this that do not depend on the UU having free promotions are not retained when you upgrade the UU.
So the impis will retain their mobility when upgraded since this is a free promotion they get, the extra movement point however is a written ability that does NOT hinge on a promotion, and is therefore lost.
A bit sad actually, I'm currently testing a pangaea 18 civs game with Shaka and retaining the movement bonus after upgrading would have been pretty fun..

Yeah, what he said

 

[futurehermit]

Yes, the Impi is a great unit, no question about it. Shaka is a pretty powerful leader overall imo. Strike early with impis, using ikhandas and courthouses to manage the economy (i.e., keep it from crashing) then once you've done some serious horizontal expansion, switch into hereditary rule and combined with expansive you can do some serious vertical expansion. At that point, no one should be able to stop you (i.e., once your economy stabilizes at say 70% slider and you are at least at tech parity).

 

[oyzar]

They are insane in mp in that you can often get them to the enemy before he hooks up his copper/iron and then it is basically all over since he can't work improved titles and eventually you'll be able to take out his cities...

 

[futurehermit]

They are the ultimate multiplayer unit and I've heard people say that Zulus are "cheating" in multiplayer

 

[Gliese 581]

I hate facing these guys. Even playing as rome and pumping out praetorians, you have to keep an extensive road network and post troops all over your territory unless there's a bottleneck or risk having impis running rampant with pillaging all over your countryside. You kill alot of them true, but they can easilly destroy your economy if left unchecked.

 

[huerfanista]

IMO, quechas are the most powerful unit in the game, both because they require no resources and are so cheap to build. Found your city, build quechas, take your enemies capitals, build quechas there, rinse and repeat. You're only limited by the distance your enemies are from you. If you can't take out 2 civs before your rivals found their 2nd city (to say nothing about hooking up copper) then you're not playing them right. (Obviously there are some map types that this won't work on).

In my last game I took out Hammurabi and Rameses before meeting Shaka. He already had a 2nd city out, but even so I was able to take and raze it before settling in to develop my 3 capital-city empire. This knocked his development far enough back that he was never able to do anything other than hand my units XPs until I vassaled him.

 

[Porphyrius]

Impis are decent enough.
Standard chariots are usually just as good though. Shaka can combine the two for a pretty mean really early, speed 2 force whith no counter.


There are better UU clearly though.
I mean if impis are though as cheating in MP, what can anyone say about the bulk of early resourceless UU (bowmen being the silly exception ).

As for SP well a UU aiming at city busting is always preferable.

 

[futurehermit]

I mean if impis are though as cheating in MP, what can anyone say about the bulk of early resourceless UU

That they don't have the mobility that impis do?

 

[KMadCandy]

3) The Impi is an early unit -- you can beeline to Bronze Working and start building them as soon as your copper is hooked up. I was cranking them out before I had my third city.

they come very early but they stay useful for a really long time. sure, quechuas come early too but their lifespan is much much shorter. i find spears helpful even after i can make pikes in a bunch of games, and impis are spears on speed. no stronger by the numbers (4 vs 4) but way better imo. that's kind of weird with

2) The Impi's ability to move and pillage, move and pillage means that you can rapidly disconnect the enemy's road network, isolating his cities for destruction one at a time. The AI will often try to rush units to threatened cities; if you've ripped up the roads, they have to walk overland, which lets you pick them off on open ground. I probably killed half a dozen Archers this way.

they rock as SoD pillage/medic support for a long long time. but they're kind of worse than chariots because they're more likely to end up the defender if the tough guys in the stack or hurt, so then i lose my precious "docs i was trying to keep because they're weaklings" *giggle*. but that does mean the fighters live longer, and i hear that many sane people regard their fighters as more precious than their doctors when they're trying to capture a city, go figure.

they also look darn cool, which counts for a lot with me. they have maybe my favorite animation in the game. they dance! those guys are waiting for a chance to fight, they're all excited and ready to go.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Impis are the best UU for multiplayer. Mobility is invaluable especially in a unit that is a counter to chariots. Nothing can catch them.. more so when you play simultanious turns.

Other UU like the dog soldier or the Skirmishers are nice but can be countered without too much pain.

It is not accidental that most players choose Shaka for 1vs1 matches

For single player I prefer other units like the quencha for example as they provide an easy early rush against the stupid AI.

 

[Tunguska]

I just played my first Shaka game on a pangea map.
Got the random event that gives free cover to your melee units so my impi's started with combat, movement and cover!

Cleared the continent before the ADs.