Zulus in a non eurocentric mainstream view

[Ogro]

Greetings,

I stumbled upon this video which is fascinating in so many ways, but for the purpose of this forum shows how biased is the view of "civilization" in this "game".

The Zulus always portrayed as war loving people by the "reputable" sources, were actually a matriarchal society that hated war.

That information comes straight from the mouth of a Zulu sage called CREDO MUTWA.

Link for the video:

 

[James_Champagne]

Wasn't this the same guy who allied himself with David Icke's theory of the "Reptilian agenda?"

 

[Ogro]

Looks like, I just found out about this guy. I am not familiar with David as well, but extra terrestrials are not a taboo crazy talk to me. Gladly nor to many others nowadays. Perhaps even not to the developers who just a released a secret societies stuff.

To honor those interested only in the Zulu history: The Zulu part starts around 20min.

 

[timmychompchomp]

I have never known a people group who rose to the level of what we would call a civilization that was 100 percent peaceful or a hoard of mindless killing machines.

In and around the time of Shaka, the Zulu were militaristic and an estimated 1 to 2 million people of Southern Africa died as numerous groups, the Zulu chief among them, struggled over land and resource. It is not unfair to depict the Zulu, as lead by Shaka, as militaristic.

I understand though that you would like a broader implementation or representation of the Zulu. I feel that opinion is equally fair. I believe the Zulu are consistently portrayed as militaristic due to civ tradition, the need for civilizations to have varied strengths and weaknesses, and the pride filled imagery of the Zulu as powerful, brave warriors who stood their own ground with the British despite the outcome.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

This is just a game.

Koreans are not famous for high-tech in history, Australians are not famous for enormous production at war, etc. They just invented some game bonuses and assign them to leaders and civs. The Russian bonus in Civ6 is the native American bonus in Civ5. The Canadian bonus in Civ6 is the Russian bonus in Civ5. The Greek bonus in Civ6 is the Aztec bonus in Civ5. The Inca bonus in Civ6 is the Carthage bonus in Civ5.

Actually they don't care whether the bonus is suitable for the Civ or not. They just happen to assign them. Are Russians anything similar to native Americans? Canadians to Russians? Greek to Aztec? Incan to Carthage? Ney. Just assignment.

The only reasonable designations are for the Americans, first they design the unique film studio as propaganda machines, and the bullying of Americans to their neighbors by assigning the +5 strength. Then they removed all of Americans' diplomatic policy slots, now they also add Cold War for Americans from the beginning of the game. The designers do have a good understanding of Americans.

 

[ClownWorld69]

Sorry but this is revisionist nonsense. If you are having visions of queens with their loyal subjects living in harmony with the local flora and fauna until the Europeans pitched up then you need a reality check I think.

The Bantu people, of which the Zulus were just one of hundreds of tribes, were not even originally from Southern Africa. Bantu tribes started pouring into Southern Africa from about 0 AD through to about 1750 AD, during which time they absolutely decimated the indigenous people who were native to the region. The Bantu were originally from Central Africa, where population pressure and never ending conflict led to massive migrations of small tribes both north and south. They had no real civilization to speak of at all, no written language and no set or defined customs, with their sangomas (witch doctors) being central to whatever short histories they had as tribes, let alone civilizations.

The more developed and advanced northern tribes could deal with them, but the indigenous populations in the south were utterly annihilated by them. Tribe sizes began to grow as they slaughtered the men and young boys before taking women with them as they moved into open land, with new tribes often springing up out of escaping survivors bringing retribution. To call these people war like would be an understatement.

The Zulu only emerged in the 1700's, they did not even exist before then. Shaka was maniac and committed genocide on a scale (given population sizes) that is beyond belief. His military tactics - simple flanking maneuvers with short stabbing spears - were a game changer for tribes who typically focused on ranged fighting to avoid casualties. It was not only the direct activity of Shaka that brought so much death and destruction, that conflict led to broader conflict between Bantu tribes across the whole country as people were displaced. Those that fled Shaka simply brought war to the people in the places they were fleeing to. It was called the Mfecane.

These were not matriarchies at all, they were primitive and dysfunctional diasporas. The concept of pair bonded marriage did not exist, in many cases men had multiple wives and its a tradition Zulu's practice even today. Women had a role to play in the tribe that went beyond simple baby making, but that was because the mother was regarded as the head of her "unit", which consisted of her children. She was still playing second fiddle to a man though, and was often just one of many wives.

Background: South African, majored in African history and anthropology.

 

[Zaarin]

Koreans are not famous for high-tech in history

I'm at the front of the line in regards to people championing a cultural Korea instead of scientific, but Korea absolutely has a history of technological prowess, even if a great deal of it involved improving Chinese designs rather than developing their own.

 

[JJOne]

I'm at the front of the line in regards to people championing a cultural Korea instead of scientific, but Korea absolutely has a history of technological prowess, even if a great deal of it involved improving Chinese designs rather than developing their own.

K-pop band. Replaces rock band. Is built with pop star promotion and a second promotion which can be chosen from all the available options.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

K-pop band. Replaces rock band. Is built with pop star promotion and a second promotion which can be chosen from all the available options.

Considering Hallyu is a social policy I think the devs are aware of the significance of Korean culture at least.

 

[Kwami]

Eh, that's all nonsense. There was plenty of fighting and warfare among the Zulu and their neighbors. Like, lots.

I've noticed that Zulu revisionists are very popular on the Internets these days and they're always telling Europeans and white people to go away and to stop misrepresenting their country and people, but then they go and spew nonsense. Like, check out the comments on any of the Extra History videos about Zulu:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZLGKFWlRzY

Not the most recent comments, but scroll down to about 2 months ago. And every video in the series was like that. None of the other old videos has a lot of recent comments, just the Zulu ones.

What's up with that?

 

[PhilBowles]

Haven't watched the video but the Zulu are militaristic in Civ because it's what they're associated with in popular culture - the game has always been heavily based on stereotypes. At the specific time they became famous among Europeans, they were engaged in a war deliberately incited by the British - and initiated by a British invasion of their territory - and their leader Cetawayo was, indeed, less aggressive than his predecessor. It is admittedly odd that we've inherited a pop culture narrative of the Zulu as being about Shaka and aggressive expansion - but, while both were true, neither was true of the actual period that made the Zulu significant in colonial history.

 

[Imaus]

Eh, that's all nonsense. There was plenty of fighting and warfare among the Zulu and their neighbors. Like, lots.

I've noticed that Zulu revisionists are very popular on the Internets these days and they're always telling Europeans and white people to go away and to stop misrepresenting their country and people, but then they go and spew nonsense. Like, check out the comments on any of the Extra History videos about Zulu:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZLGKFWlRzY

Not the most recent comments, but scroll down to about 2 months ago. And every video in the series was like that. None of the other old videos has a lot of recent comments, just the Zulu ones.

What's up with that?

As more and more people around the world get on the net, especially from Africa and so, we're going to be seeing a LOT of revivisonist, nationalistic level stuff.

Before it was mostly everyone from the Balkans on the net, and being made fun of/being heated about that. Now imagine it for nearly every polity and continent on the world.

 

[montalaar]

not only zulu, but all bantu were extremely agressive. they nearly exterminated all other races in lands they came. most of them they just used as slave cattle - pygmees, hottentots etc.
there was no "zulu civilization", it was invented to have other african civilization, besides valid as meroe.

 

[GIO888]

Its my understanding the Zulu were busy ethnic cleansing the entire south of the African continent and only stopped when the Dutch and then the British turned up.

In a dog-eat-dog world, they had bigger teeth?