Brave new World's New Civilizations - REVISED AGAIN!

[citmrocks]

Mughals dynasty were Turco-Mongol. but, their populations were mostly indian. this doesn't make them indian empire.

i didn't call them indian empire .. there was not a single "indian" empire in indian history .. many small or large empires/kingdom but not a pan-india empire .. only British were able to rule whole india directly or indirectly....
by indian power i meant to say they were situated in indian subcontinent rather than central asia ... and yes, akbar and rulers after him were born in india and considered themselves indians ( more correctly Hindustani, what india was called at that time) rather than turco-mongol .... even though they were proud of their lineage ..

 

[wigwam]

The Non-Aligned Movement would be a pretty cool basis for a UA, I think. What if it was something like:

+10 Influence resting point with City-States. Public opinion of competing ideologies has reduced negative consequences. Your City-State allies get 50% more votes in the World Congress.

That'd give you the opportunity to go your own way in the late game (while still giving you a solid diplomatic advantage before ideologies came into play); you could buddy up to all the City-States and ignore the other major civs.

I personally associate it most with Tito and Yugoslavia, which is a pretty unlikely candidate for inclusion, but there were other important members. Egypt, India, South Africa, and Iran are already in the game in one form or another, but Indonesia, Ghana, Sri Lanka, etc. could still be in the cards. People might be disappointed to get a modern Indonesia rather than Majapahit (and Sukarno might be an unpopular choice as a leader), but who knows, it could be cool.

 

[EricTheGreat12]

Who here actually prefers Vietnam from Majaphit as being a new civ ?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I prefer Vietnam over anything Indonesia. Indonesia just doesn't compel me for some reason. It's not like I'm going to throw a hissy-fit if it is selected, but I just have other preferences.

 

[seancolorado]

Indonesia just doesn't compel me for some reason.

What reason is that?

 

[Civciv5]

I'm happy with either Indonesia or Vietnam, but I prefer Indonesia because their achievements are more impressive to me. Southeast Asian civ preference order: Indonesia>Khmer>Burma>Vietnam

 

[wigwam]

Honestly, I'd never even heard of the Majapahit Empire before I started visiting these forums. Now that've read up on it (and on Srivajaya, Medang, etc.) I think the exclusion of Indonesia is probably the biggest oversight in the whole Civ series.

I'd be happy to see Vietnam too, though.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

What reason is that?

I'm not sure. I appreciate their accomplishments like repelling a Mongol fleet and extending a trade empire as far as Madagascar. The architecture is impressive.

I think that the language may be a bit of a barrier for me. Names like Kertarajasa Jayawardhana, Tribhuwana Wijayatunggadewi, and Kusumawardhani are a bit formidable for my brain to process. I could get used to it, but I'm not going to advocate for it.

I just lack enthusiasm. I try not to make comparisons between unlike cultures, but I lack a familiar analog to really help me understand what the Majapahit were like. I need something to say, "they are like X in a lot of ways, but here are the ways they are different."

 

[yisheng]

I'm not sure. I appreciate their accomplishments like repelling a Mongol fleet and extending a trade empire as far as Madagascar. The architecture is impressive.
...I just lack enthusiasm. I try not to make comparisons between unlike cultures, but I lack a familiar analog to really help me understand what the Majapahit were like. I need something to say, "they are like X in a lot of ways, but here are the ways they are different."

I kind of get you. Indonesia's never been a huge ally or adversary of the West, so there's no real stereotype of them. They don't fit easily into the Buddhist-East Asian, Hindu-South Asian or Arab-Muslim categories that have been broadcast. No mass emigration of Indonesians to America, either.

As a person from Singapore - a fellow nation in island Southeast Asia - I'm actually really thrilled that so many Civ Fanatics are finally paying Indonesia the attention it deserves in history. And hell, Singapore was a colony of the Majapahit, so it's best shot of going in as part of an empire.

 

[phaethon16]

Who here actually prefers Vietnam from Majaphit as being a new civ ?

I think that if Majapahit isn't going to be a naval trade civ, then I want Vietnam more. Besides, I look forward to seeing what the devs would come up with for them.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I don't care which one gets in, I want more Asian civs. Asia's been represented by more or less the same civs since the game's inception, it's rare we get something new. Subjectively II wanna see Vietnam because I'm Vietnamese, but objectively I think Indonesia/Majapahit is more deserving.

 

[VermelhoRed]

I'd love to see either Indonesia or Viet Nam, but I prefer the latter, personally.

 

[seancolorado]

Indonesia is certainly the most neglected big power both in modern day and historically. It doesn't bother me so much as it surprises me that a nation of their prowess is neglected as much as they are. But if you look at how things are shaping with (1) ASEAN's potential playing a massive role and (2) globalization really advertising Indonesia on a noticeable + significant level more and more each year, you could argue that in 25-30 years time history will be "re-written."

Nevertheless, I'm trying to wrap my head around why that is. I think a big part of it is that they have always been really friendly with people. I mean, there has been A LOT of violence but Indonesia typically shies away from global events - or they have historically withstood them with little fuss. I'm not entirely certain but part of it could also be the "islander" culture where Indonesians are generally very happy where they are - colonial and wartime history created strong historical ties with the Dutch but that's about it - and thus have no reason to mingle in mass numbers overseas.

 

[seancolorado]

As a person from Singapore - a fellow nation in island Southeast Asia - I'm actually really thrilled that so many Civ Fanatics are finally paying Indonesia the attention it deserves in history. And hell, Singapore was a colony of the Majapahit, so it's best shot of going in as part of an empire.

I've noticed that the market for Eastern civs is a lot bigger than I would have assumed when I first joined CivFanatics - it's just a matter of speaking up about it and then you hear the fans come out from the shadows

Civ is the kind of game with endless potential because as globalization increases, the potential to tap into foreign markets becomes greater. Even if that doesn't happen for whatever strange reason, they still have the faithful Eurocentric/Americas base to rely on for guaranteed sales

 

[cybrxkhan]

I've noticed that the market for Eastern civs is a lot bigger than I would have assumed when I first joined CivFanatics - it's just a matter of speaking up about it and then you hear the fans come out from the shadows

Civ is the kind of game with endless potential because as globalization increases, the potential to tap into foreign markets becomes greater. Even if that doesn't happen for whatever strange reason, they still have the faithful Eurocentric/Americas base to rely on for guaranteed sales

Although I would wager the market is still dominated by Japanese video games in Asia' I wonder what a Japanese-made (or any Asian-made) game in the Civ series would be like.
"Not enouggh Euro civs!"

 

[seancolorado]

Although I would wager the market is still dominated by Japanese video games in Asia' I wonder what a Japanese-made (or any Asian-made) game in the Civ series would be like.
"Not enouggh Euro civs!"

That's something I've wondered as well. Who would be their Gandhi?

 

[seancolorado]

I think that the language may be a bit of a barrier for me. Names like Kertarajasa Jayawardhana, Tribhuwana Wijayatunggadewi, and Kusumawardhani are a bit formidable for my brain to process. I could get used to it, but I'm not going to advocate for it.

Haha I feel you. A lot of civ is just accessibility to the market. I think that's why I don't call for Middle Eastern civs where others do - just a matter of my upbringing on how I wasn't properly exposed to them. Although on your point of names Indonesians usually just go by their first name (the shorter, easier one)

 

[LordProtector]

That's something I've wondered as well. Who would be their Gandhi?

William Shakespeare. King of England.

 

[cybrxkhan]

That's something I've wondered as well. Who would be their Gandhi?

Martin Luther King?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

That's something I've wondered as well. Who would be their Gandhi?

I suspect it would go the other way for them. It is my understanding that East Asia doesn't have quite the aversion to depictions of a certain German dictator. As we have falsely and humorously attributed nuclear warmongering to Gandhi, they might falsely and humorously attribute pacifism to Herr Hitler.