SGOTM 21 Maintenance Thread

Deckhand

Deckhand

Procrastination at its finest
GOTM Staff
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
5,504
Location
California
SGOTM 21 - Conquering The Hearts

This thread gives you and the Staff somewhere to post about non-spoiler issues relating to the game. It is a way of communicating to the rest of the players outside your team, and with the staff, about matters of general interest that affect your team or everyone. You can post about bugs, rule clarifications, problems with the roster etc., but please do not divulge information about your team's progress. Please subscribe to this thread so that you are kept up to date with new information as the game proceeds. If you need to raise specific issues concerning only your team, then please contact me, BSPollux or Deckhand by PM.

The team lists are at the end of this post.


You will play as Pericles of Greece.

You are good friends with Willem of Oranje, the leader of the Dutch. You are in contact with him from the start and you will be on the same continent. For years he has made fun of you for being a bookworm and more interested in discussing arts and politics with old men than everything else. He himself is a total party animal and skirt chaser. Now the time has come to beat him in his own game:

Win the heart of the most prominent women of the world, all three female leaders, before you reach a victory condition of your choice.

That's the plan. But how do you 'win the heart' of a leader? Willem knows about your plan, but he's a good sportsman and willing to help you master the arts of male/female interaction. On condition you pay all the bills, he will accompany you on a series of training parties during which you will discover different options to charm the three ladies. He has met them and has a few good ideas about what they might like. You can ask him a total of ten questions. The cost of information increases with each purchase. How to pay the bills for those questions is described below in post#2.

1) He can tell you, roughly, where to find the three female leaders. (This will be general directions only)
2) The three ways to win Elizabeth's heart.
3) The three ways to win Isabella's heart.
4) The three ways to win Catherine’s heart.

You need to fulfill only one task for each lady, but some will be easier than others and some may need a long time to finish. So you better get to know them early. It is very well possible that some of these tasks may become impossible to fulfill during the game, by your actions or those of others. But there is at least one way to win each heart that can't be blocked. Obviously, it won't be the fastest or easiest.

If Willem’s civilization gets destroyed you are allowed to ask any other male leader for advice, but it will cost you triple the gold or workers.
If a female leader gets dethroned you can't win her heart anymore; but if you already fulfilled a task for her this won't matter. You may declare war on anyone at any time, even Willem or the ladies.

You may never 'beg' from Willem, same goes with any other leader if you ever buy info from him in case because Willem was defeated.

Your starting area
Click for a full size image

The overall difficulty level is immortal, but some AIs have slightly altered starts and so do you: We added a worker to your starting units.

Game Options
Ancient Era Start
Normal Speed
No Vassals
No Goody Huts
No Events
Normal Barbs
All Victory Conditions Enabled

Map size Standard
9 Opponents
Normal Barbs
Map: Modified custom continents
Difficulty: Immortal
=================================

Timetable

The Pre-game Discussion Thread for this game is now open for business.

The team discussion threads for this game are now open.

The team starting saves will be available here on January 10.

The completion deadline will be May 8. Plan your game, and please avoid a last minute struggle to meet the deadline.
Please be warned, except in the event of cosmic catastrophes. THERE WILL BE NO DEADLINE EXTENSIONS.


Notes
  • Versions
    This game will be played in Civilization IV Beyond the Sword, version 3.19, using the standard BUFFY-3.19.003 HoF mod, Unless stated otherwise in this thread before the game starts..
    If a later BtS patch is released during this game you will NOT be able to use it to play. You will need to complete this game in BtS version 3.19 before updating your copy of BtS, or you should create and update a separate copy. See also the note about Steam updates below.

    Macintosh players can only join in if they are able to run the Windows software on their system.
  • Steam
    If you play BtS using Steam, then your BtS will auto-update to a new version which is incompatible with those playing the DVD version. You will therefore need to install the Steam "beta" version to play this game. You can check whether your copy of BtS is compatible by downloading a SGOTM 19 starting save. If it loads OK in your copy of BtS, then you are ready to play.
  • Rules and Procedures
    Please visit the Civ4 SGOTM reference thread to check out the rules and procedures to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game.

    Note, the usual GOTM restrictions apply: no replaying, no liberating cities to a civ you are at war with (except in peace deal), no subsidizing resource trades with AI, no goto mapping or flying camera, only 1 tech from Oracle/Liberalism.

    All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.
  • Spoiler information will absolutely NOT be tolerated in this thread.


Current Sign-up Lists
The table below displays the current team lists. The number of players in each team is shown in brackets, as are non-playing advisers.
 
Note these changes: need positive relations with Willem, party costs are progressively more expensive.

Laurels & Awards
Teams will be ranked first by number of hearts won, then by date.
Gold, Silver, and Bronze Laurels go top three teams.
Wooden Spoons will go to team with lowest score.
To be eligible for any reward, you must submit a save on the turn after you achieve victory.

Scenario
Win the hearts of the three female leaders.
Then win the game with any victory condition.

Restrictions
You cannot beg from Willem.**
If you purchase info from another leader due to Willem's demise, you may no longer beg from that leader. (no begs after buying)
You may not trade techs with Willem the same turn that you purchase information.

Winning Hearts
You need to fulfill only one task for each ruler.
You can only fulfill a task you know of. If you buy info and realize you already finished a task it won't count. If you are 'half way done' but the last piece is still missing that's OK, as long as you know about the task when you finish it. Example: The task demands you do A, B and C. You already did A and B when you learn about it. Doing C now will count as successfully ending that task.

Partying with Willem
Information to be purchased:
1) He can tell you, roughly, where to find the three female leaders. (This will be general directions only)
2) The three ways to win Elizabeth's heart.
3) The three ways to win Isabella's heart.
4) The three ways to win Catherine’s heart.

The three tasks for each ruler have a number on our list (Isabella#1, Isabella#2, etc). If you are buying some, tell us which one you want. We will sort them by what we think is the order in which they can be fulfilled. This is a human judgment thing though, as the tasks are very different and not all of them are easily sortable that way. Just assume that "discover Future Tech" would have a higher number than "build Stonehenge".

You can buy any number at one time.
Do not combine any other trade/diplomacy actions with this gift.

Purchasing Information
Willem will only sell information if his opinion of you is +1 or better.
Information is purchased with a cash gift via diplomacy screen, or by moving workers into his capital and gifting them by the interface button.

As your training sessions get increasingly advanced, the bills will start to climb as well. So each time you buy information, you have to scratch one payment option from this list of 20.

Example: If you purchased the first two pieces of information with gold (50 and 75), you will have the choice to pay with either 1 worker or 100 gold for the third purchase. If you chose the 1 worker option, the next choice will be between 2 workers or 100 gold and so on.


Transaction Documentation and Discussion
For both purchases from Willem and gifts to the Ladies:
Post before and after screenshots in your team thread.
Post before and after saves to the server.
Let Deckhand and BSPollux know by PM (or wait for them to notice your posts in your team thread).

Deckhand and/or BSPollux will post information purchased from Willem in your team threads. They will also answer any related questions in your threads. Let us know by PM if you have a question.

Special Cases
If Willem’s civilization gets destroyed you are allowed to ask any other male leader for advice, but it will cost you triple the gold or workers.
If a female leader gets dethroned you can't win her heart anymore (see ranking above).

Allowed
worker stealing
espionage assisted culture victories
please ask about others

Not allowed
No Begging (at all) from Willem; nor from another AI after buying courtship information from them
No Tech Trading (either direction) with Willem on a turn that you purchase information
no replaying any non-reversible actions
no liberating cities to a civ you are at war with (except in peace deal),
no subsidizing resource trades with AI,
no goto mapping or flying camera,
no multiple techs from Oracle/Liberalism.

note, we are a small community playing for fun with non-material prizes - enforcement of rules is primarily by player voluntary compliance and self-policing
there are HOF mod checks for replaying parts of turns
** compliance with no begging is strictly on the honor system

Uploading Saves, Please upload saves at these points:
Whenever ownership of official save changes (i.e. use server for exchanging saves unless it is unavailable)
Before and after "paying" Willem
Before and after wooing a Leader
Turns 60 115 145 170 190 205 225 240 260 (TBR)
 
Reposting very nice summary from Fippy with a few minor changes.
Most important rules and tips

We can only look at our thread, and only download our save. Includes lurker threads, not for us.
It's best to bookmark yours, so you avoid misclicks.
If you accidently click on another team's save or thread, pm Alan & Deckhand and let them know.

All moves & actions (i.e. units moved, trades with AIs) that cannot be reversed in the live saves are final (and we must live with them if by accident).
Reloading is forbidden.

Our live game should always be paused, and ideally only the current player removes pause.
For example always pause it before uploading, for others.
You can check stuff like city tiles and change them, without saving cos those changes are not final, but it's best to do so only if really needed. Mostly we will use test games for this stuff.

Autosave must be set to each turn in your CivilizationiV.ini file (can be found under user/name/your documents/my games/bts (for me).
In the editor, search for "auto" and find: Specify the number of turns between autoSaves. 0 means no autosave.
AutoSaveInterval = 4
Set this to Interval = 1

If your game crashes and you lost not reversible actions, we must pm Alan.
Autosave will often be best to use here (and replay all actions, trying your best to copy them), but saving often can still be helpful on long turns.

If you start playing after we made our plans, but something unusual happens (or you are just not sure, and think it's maybe important)..
stopping and asking for advice is usually best. We are in no hurry.

Cycling thru all our cities before ending turns is good, who knows what governors will change (darn those spies!).
Click to expand...
darn those spies indeed ;)
 
Ok, let's start with a question:

"If a female leader gets dethroned you can't win her heart anymore." It's not clear what dethroned means. Only eliminated or vassaled as well? I would assume eliminated, but let's ask to be sure. :)
 
Yamps said:
Ok, let's start with a question:

"If a female leader gets dethroned you can't win her heart anymore." It's not clear what dethroned means. Only eliminated or vassaled as well? I would assume eliminated, but let's ask to be sure. :)
Click to expand...

Yes, eliminated.
BTW, Vassals are disabled.
Spoiler :
Don't feel too bad about this question - I asked BSPollux the same one. :lol:
 
Unusual SuspeX has changed its name to Xteam. That is NOT a signal for everyone else to change team names. I just need a decision from Unallocated now.
 
AlanH said:
Unusual SuspeX has changed its name to Xteam. That is NOT a signal for everyone else to change team names. I just need a decision from Unallocated now.
Click to expand...

Hi Alan...

Jag älskar er. ;)
 
"Jag älskar er" is all set up.

Team starting saves are all available here
 
The availability of the starting saves today seems to have come as a surprise. Perhaps the delay in opening team threads threw some of you.

For the avoidance of doubt, various announcement threads have always stated:
The team starting saves will be available ... on January 10
Click to expand...
Which means from 00:01 CST (06:01 GMT) on the stated date, and that was when all team except the then-unnamed Jag älskar er were able to download their starting saves.
 
Some clarifications.
Deckhand said:
Partying with Willem
Information to be purchased:
1) He can tell you, roughly, where to find the three female leaders. (This will be general directions only)
2) The three ways to win Elizabeth's heart.
3) The three ways to win Isabella's heart.
4) The three ways to win Catherine’s heart.

The three tasks for each ruler have a number on our list (Isabella#1, Isabella#2, etc). If you are buying some, tell us which one you want. We will sort them by what we think is the order in which they can be fulfilled. This is a human judgment thing though, as the tasks are very different and not all of them are easily sortable that way. Just assume that "discover Future Tech" would have a higher number than "build Stonehenge".[/q]The partying with Willem is strictly poetic. You don't need to do anything beyond what has already been identified.
Click to expand...

The two examples listed relate to the ordering of the revelations. You should not construe that your tasks will be or not be similar.

Our answers are fixed and the order won't vary. For example, if a task has become impossible, that answer will still be provided when that hint number is requested.


Transaction Documentation and Discussion
For both purchases from Willem and gifts to the Ladies:
Post before and after screenshots in your team thread.
Post before and after saves to the server.

Uploading Saves, Please upload saves at these points:
...
Before and after "paying" Willem
Before and after wooing a Leader
Turns ...
Click to expand...

Regarding "gifts to the Ladies", Do not assume that any or all tasks will involve gifts as is done for Willem. The saves should be posted as immediately-before-and-after as is practical given the nature of the task.
 
hmmn, this one got cut out from my edit, posting separately in case someone has already read the above.
Deckhand said:
Purchasing Information
Willem will only sell information if his opinion of you is +1 or better.
Click to expand...
This restriction does not apply to other male leaders if you purchase information from them in the event of Willem's elimination.
 
Question: Since I posted in the TSR-thread, I'm not allowed to "paricipate" in the Lurker thread? Does that mean I may visit the lurker-thread but may not post in it?

That doesn't make sense to me, I'm not giving any information for TSR with my posts, at least not information that didn't come from themselves already.

Is it still right, that I now may not post in the Lurker thread?

Sry, but this issue is really difficult for me to understand. I understand why Team-members may not post or read the lurker thread, but for me as a lurker who reads all threads, it doesn't make any difference if I posted on TSR's thread.

Hope this is at least partly understandable, sry for the poor wording.
 
Seraiel said:
Question: Since I posted in the TSR-thread, I'm not allowed to "paricipate" in the Lurker thread? Does that mean I may visit the lurker-thread but may not post in it?

That doesn't make sense to me, I'm not giving any information for TSR with my posts, at least not information that didn't come from themselves already.

Is it still right, that I now may not post in the Lurker thread?

Sry, but this issue is really difficult for me to understand. I understand why Team-members may not post or read the lurker thread, but for me as a lurker who reads all threads, it doesn't make any difference if I posted on TSR's thread.

Hope this is at least partly understandable, sry for the poor wording.
Click to expand...
First I will address the general rule, and then your specific circumstance.

The rule is that anyone that posts in a team thread, should not have ever read any other team threads nor the Lurker thread.
Of course, the intent is to prevent spoiler information. But what is and isn't a spoiler can be very unclear. And there is always the possibility of unintentional spoiling. Plus some teams may not appreciate people dropping in (this really hasn't been a problem in the past and most "visitor" posts are fine.)

Things are much simpler and enforceable if everyone is on a team (as member or dedicated lurker) or not on a team and should not post in team threads.

An analogy would be a Stop traffic sign. The intent is to prevent collisions and the rule could be phrased as: "if any other cars or people are in the intersection or approaching it, then Stop at the corner." It is much safer to always require cars to stop.

So, it isn't that you can't participate in the Lurker thread now; but rather that if you have read the lurker thread, then you can not post in team threads.
You are right that a rule allowing reading but not posting in the lurker thread wouldn't make any sense.
So, in your case, my decision is that you may read and post in the lurker thread, but please do not post in any team threads (anymore).
Spoiler :
I think a "letter of the law" approach would ban you from reading and posting in any threads other than TSR.


Alternatively, if you have not yet read the lurker thread nor any team threads, then you may continue to participate in the TSR thread only as a dedicated lurker.

Spoiler :
does that make sense?
 
I flew over the lurker thread, and after that, I read the TSR-thread, wrote 2 motivation-posts that didn't give away any information, then I read the Plastic Ducks thread + the Phoenix Rising thread, both without posting.

So I must refrain myself from posting in the TSR thread completely now, and may read and comment in the lurker-thread, did I understand that right?

Tia, Seraiel
 
Seraiel said:
I flew over the lurker thread, and after that, I read the TSR-thread, wrote 2 motivation-posts that didn't give away any information, then I read the Plastic Ducks thread + the Phoenix Rising thread, both without posting.

So I must refrain myself from posting in the TSR thread completely now, and may read and comment in the lurker-thread, did I understand that right?

Tia, Seraiel
Click to expand...

Bummer, It's nice to know people are following along and, every once in while, get a wise-crack or motivational msg. It is a community after all. But I understand how it does complicate enforcement :( I'm glad to hear you're not banned from participating in the lurker thread at least.
 
When I first discovered the SGOTM format I made similar honest mistake posting in PR thread, players discouraged me from posting anything more and i even edited the post afterwards and AlanH forbid me posting in the team thread of course :).

It happens, I am sure you will be very much welcomed in lurker thread Seraiel.

You can post in team threads (if you are not team member ofc) only after they finished the game and AlanH (or adminstrator of sgotm) allows such.

@WastinTime

you can assume there still are some lurkers, but i guess if the lurker thread came couple years ago the posting would be more frequent.

current topics of discussion are actually quite interesting, as usually games of civ are most interesting at beginnings.
 
I was looking through the rules (it was a quiet day). It occured to me that we have to meet Willem in order to buy information and we have to complete one task for each Lady. The rules don't state when (or even if) we have to meet the Ladies to win their hearts (online dating? :))
 
Is there a question hidden in there? :)
Just assume there's a difference between meeting a Queen on someones party and being able to form official, working trade relations with her country.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Nizef
  • Sticky
TSG 243 Announcement
2
Replies
23
Views
1K
cocls
C
Nizef
  • Sticky
TSG 243 After Actions Thread
Replies
7
Views
471
Megalou
Megalou
Nizef
TSG 241 Announcement
Replies
9
Views
783
sebtanic
S
Gwaja
Barbarian Challenge #2
Replies
16
Views
666
Gwaja
Gwaja
Nizef
  • Sticky
TSG 241 After Actions Thread
2 3
Replies
40
Views
2K
cocls
C
Top Bottom