Deity/Domination or Violent Culture/Large Map

[Acken]

I'll join in for the new experience. I'll play this evening if you guys want.

 

[stormtrooper412]

@consentient

It would help if you pointed out what you would have done differently though, every little bit helps

@Acken

don't launch just yet, we'd like to play at least one more session afterwards

 

[consentient]

@ST:

Spoiler :

OK, if you really want me to, I will

1. Location of NY. While early on 'pink spot' was identified, I later said that it should be further away near the conflux of the rivers. Having it minimum distance from another city is a huge waste.

2. Scouting. I quickly played 40 turns on my own and had a similar level of scouting to what you guys had after 40 by turn 15. Why build 2 scouts and then not use them to the best of their ability? Now I can see why you turned your nose up at building 3 scouts on Large Continents. Because you don't really want to make the most use of them. These are American scouts, no less.

3. Farms. When there are hammers still to improve, farms are a distant 2nd best in terms of priorities. The benefit they allow does not compensate for the gold cost of maintenance.

There are other things, but those are the most obvious.

People could say I was being pointlessly belligerent but I don't want to end up in another really terrible position like last time, and I think Bugsy is right that I don't have enough patience or team spirit. It's better if others take my place. Enjoy the map.

 

[stormtrooper412]

Fair enough, but allow me:

Spoiler :

1. I settled before seeing what you wrote. In hindsight, a slightly bad call perhaps but I went for the Ivory

2. I plain forgot that American scouts are better by default, I concede. But a window of free labor opened which I estimated would be more immediate than scouting, that was my judgment.

3. I disagree because while I did build one farm, I built the mine on Gems and was in the process of improving the Horses and chopping out the forests around the expo to speed up the Granary. We don't have Trapping so I can't camp the bison. So the second farm is only an interlude until BW is done. However. such tile improvements do NOT cost maintenance. Only roads do.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

3. Farms. When there are hammers still to improve, farms are a distant 2nd best in terms of priorities. The benefit they allow does not compensate for the gold cost of maintenance.

OK, help me out with this one. You gave me a hard time for micromanaging the capitol so that I would maximize hammers to get the worker quicker. Here you give Stormtrooper a hard time because he is focusing on food rather than hammers. What is your rule of thumb for food v. hammers?

 

[Sir Bugsy]

2. Scouting. I quickly played 40 turns on my own and had a similar level of scouting to what you guys had after 40 by turn 15. Why build 2 scouts and then not use them to the best of their ability? Now I can see why you turned your nose up at building 3 scouts on Large Continents. Because you don't really want to make the most use of them. These are American scouts, no less.

Scouting can take two approaches.
1. Go as fast as possible, probably in one direction only, and cover as much ground as possible.
2. Scout in a circular manner around the capitol to gain information on the surrounding territory.

Before I started playing, I said I was going to take the second approach. No one said a thing about my thinking.

Please tell us what your philosophy is when scouting.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

@ Acken - Please hold off playing until we have a chance to discuss our present position and what needs to be done.

 

[stormtrooper412]

I see the grand plan something like this:

3 or 4 city NC. Third city goes SW, fourth goes North. After NC pick Civil Service then back to Workshops and towards unlocking the UU then go and smash the continent if possible. If the neighbors all keep fighting each other, we should have little problem. Meanwhile Universities, Hermitage and then claim every artifact afterwards

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I think we need to get comp bows (construction) fairly soon. Maria is going to be looking for some pay back.
I would also suggest that getting universities sooner rather than later would be most desirable. Universities allow us to get great scientists. The earlier we can get some GS the more value they will have throughout the game. They will also allow us to start catching up with the AIs' deity tech lead.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

We really need to discuss what we are doing right now.

I would start a library in Washington, but I have been told I am stupid for going for science this early.

We also need to discuss where we settle the third city. Consentient didn't like cities that close to one another. Personally I think having a city 8 tiles away will require a separate military defensive force since roads are still a ways off.

 

[consentient]

The reason I'm not answering questions is not that I don't have answers but that the whole argument is pointless for me.

People are putting words in my mouth (I did NOT call you stupid, Bugsy) and I feel the atmosphere has already soured beyond repair, so that's why I think it's just best if I leave you to it.

ST asked me specific questions so I answered them because I owe him that and much more for his consistent friendship on this site, but really, my perspective is clearly at odds with the way you want to play, and vice versa. If the only way to resolve differences in a team game is to hash it out exhaustively in between turns, I definitely don't want to play SG.

 

[Acken]

We really need to discuss what we are doing right now.

I would start a library in Washington, but I have been told I am stupid for going for science this early.

We also need to discuss where we settle the third city. Consentient didn't like cities that close to one another. Personally I think having a city 8 tiles away will require a separate military defensive force since roads are still a ways off.

Since it's a large map I'd make 5-6 cities total. We could settle for 4 city NC and therefore queue up another settler after the third.

Good locations are in my opinion next to the truffles on that jungle hill. A 4th can be made north on the gold or sout west for the coast next to additional crab and gems.

I see the grand plan something like this:

3 or 4 city NC. Third city goes SW, fourth goes North. After NC pick Civil Service then back to Workshops and towards unlocking the UU then go and smash the continent if possible. If the neighbors all keep fighting each other, we should have little problem. Meanwhile Universities, Hermitage and then claim every artifact afterwards

Is the UU any good on deity ?

 

[stormtrooper412]

Well I would assume so since the original plan was a Renaissance war anyway

 

[Sir Bugsy]

The reason I'm not answering questions is not that I don't have answers but that the whole argument is pointless for me.

People are putting words in my mouth (I did NOT call you stupid, Bugsy) and I feel the atmosphere has already soured beyond repair, so that's why I think it's just best if I leave you to it.

You are correct. In traditional CivFanatics manner, my moves should probably be classified as

Also traditionally, SGs have been used by players of all play styles and play ability to improve themselves. That improvement is usually done through discussion. The idea is that no one is perfect. has so many different ways you can play and play successfully. Typically in a single player game we don't take the time to reexamine our moves after we've played.

I still remember an SG I played where Sirian explained exactly why my decisions were . (It was on Sid and I think we called it the Magnificent Seven, even though many of us were less than magnificent). Those constructive criticisms enabled me to play much better on subsequent turns and on subsequent games.

Much of being a successful civ player is understanding the underlying mechanisms and the pros and cons of each possible choice.

 

[Acken]

Loaded the save.

I have sadly a limited amount of time so I will write and post limited amount of screenshots.

Assesment of the situation:
4 workers at that stage is pretty good
I bring the warrior west to be closer to civilians and heal faster

Turn 42
Iron working is finished and reveals 2 iron in capital (for a total of 12)
I queue up calendar to start on those citrus

Turn 43
Settler is built. I see 3 potential spots:
-south west for gems, coast and crabs
-North for floodplains + gold
-Far east for river + truffles

I think the north spot is the least likely to be stolen so I choose to settle the other two (and therefore queue up a 3rd settler).

Dido wants friendship, she's a reknown backstaber but also the most likely AI to bother us on this continent. Making Friendship with her seems a good idea for now.

Will need some archer or spearman, lot of barb camps around us

One scout is brought back to help settler protection
We find Dido in the south

Spoiler :

We find Siam in the east

Spoiler :

Turn 46
Need units, New York queues a spearman after the granary and before the library

Turn 47
I hesitate to pick Sailing or archery, finally chose archery for an archer after the settler.

Turn48
There is an annoying Dido settler trying to steal the SW spot, using a worker and a warrior to slow it down

Spoiler :

Turn51
Archery is done and I start sailing for crabs and cargo ship
Boston is settled in the east and starts on a granary

A portugal settler got captured by a barb
Boston scout go back next to the camp quest sadly the quest gets completed by dido on turn 53
The quest for the northern city states gets also completed by the CS themselves I assume.

Turn54
Philadelphia is settled south west and starts on a Library. We should buy a granary there when we reach 340 !

Turn56
I finish Sailing and chose to go Trapping before Philosophy.
I now have an archer and go for the granary in cap finally.

Turn57
Siam wants to also be our friend. We can accept and concentrate on Portugal if the plan is Renaissance minutemen attack.

Turn59
Granary is finished I queue up a work boat to help the happiness
I'd recommend a Cargo ship because Washington is a low food city followed by a Library next.

I exchange gems for marble so the next gems will increase happiness.

Turn60
The King is dead, long live the king
Situation at succession:

Spoiler :

Notes:
Things should be set for a timely 4cities National College. Philadelphia will build it manually with future mines while getting a rushed granary, new york Library is almost done and Boston should cut some of those forests to speed it up.

The real thing to watch for is Portugal, so posting a scout there to watch for a gathering army could be a good idea.

The next step would be also to try to hook all those crabs once the NC infrastucture is down and make sure our two coastal cities are feeding each other.

A good idea forexploration would be to invest in a trireme.

Finally this being a large map we could go for a 5th or 6th cities after NC and make them catch up with a caravan.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

When did we decide to settle that spot that Boston is occupying? I think that one has got a big bull's eye painted on its chest. If we have a major decision to make, such as where to settle, you need to get buy in from the team. It is OK to stop in the middle of your turns let us discuss.

We need to build our military and let our scouts scout.

 

[stormtrooper412]

That may not be the case. Hopefully, Dido will want to fight our neighbors while we get back on our feet. I have been burned many times in the past, so I will *always* see Dido a bigger threat than anyone else

 

[Acken]

When did we decide to settle that spot that Boston is occupying? I think that one has got a big bull's eye painted on its chest. If we have a major decision to make, such as where to settle, you need to get buy in from the team. It is OK to stop in the middle of your turns let us discuss.

We need to build our military and let our scouts scout.

My august 23rd post, about expansion spots, was without a response after 2 days.
I suggested spots, left 2 days to respond and T40 save clearly shows a settler coming in 3 turns.

And it's your turn.

Since this is a continent and it's turn 60 we can use one of the scouts as a spoter. For military I suggest an additional army of 2 archer and a spearman built in expansions.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

My august 23rd post, about expansion spots, was without a response after 2 days.
I suggested spots, left 2 days to respond and T40 save clearly shows a settler coming in 3 turns.

And it's your turn.

Since this is a continent and it's turn 60 we can use one of the scouts as a spoter. For military I suggest an additional army of 2 archer and a spearman built in expansions.

Fair enough we were all tied up with the departure of consentient. I missed it. I have trouble with describing something as "jungle hill". Dot maps are a preferred way to discuss settling locations.

Personnally, 2 archers and a spearman will just slow Dido down enough so that we lose the city in seven turns instead of four. We will need at least four ranged units. We have iron, what is the matter with swords?

 

[Acken]

Swords blow. Get civil service get pikes. Bonus against elephants on top of it.
Edit: But I guess since there was a suggested plan for Minutemen that making swords would make sense.

I'm also convinced Dido will go for Siam first.