7 New Civs You'd Like to See in Civ7

Venice with the "no colonies" option, etc.
But Venice did have colonies. Lots of them. And the notion they had never FOUNDED any is bunk, too. Although I admit I haven't played Civ5, the notion sounds very arbitrary and hamfisted (like Kongo not being unable to found a religion is - although the Civ6 religion system is also absolutely horrtid in how it works), and such hard-edged mechanics should go to the dustbin of game development history, and not be a beacon of the the future.
 
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I agree that the bonuses for civilizations could be much simpler in general. I think the dependence on adjacencies for many of the abilities in civ 6 contributed greatly to making various abilities clunky and hard to grasp.

I'm personally of the opinion that the franchise could add more individual components to each civ while also reducing complexity.
 
I agree that the bonuses for civilizations could be much simpler in general. I think the dependence on adjacencies for many of the abilities in civ 6 contributed greatly to making various abilities clunky and hard to grasp.

I'm personally of the opinion that the franchise could add more individual components to each civ while also reducing complexity.
Adjacency bonuses are only relevant for endemic mechanics in Civ6. As I've said, I'm a staunch supporter of those endemic mechanics too each iteration being new and inovative for each new one, and the notion proposed at a number of junctures,here, of bringing back ones from past iterations almost wholesale.
 
But Venice did have colonies. Lots of them. And the notion they had never FOUNDED any is bunk, too. Although I admit I haven't played Civ5, the notion sounds very arbitrary and hamfisted (like Kongo not being unable to found a religion is - although the Civ6 religion system is also absolutely horrtid in how it works), and such hard-edged mechanics should go to the dustbin of game development history, and not be a beacon of the the future.

I'm talking about the original Civ V Expansion Venice, which didn't allow you to train settlers or annex cities, but did allow you to buy City States
 
I'm talking about the original Civ V Expansion Venice, which didn't allow you to train settlers or annex cities, but did allow you to buy City States
That's what I was referring to, from all I can gather of it.
 
The notion they had never founded any may be bunk, but an interesting design needs not necessarily be accurate. Design gameplay and flavor are key, accuracy is a very secondary concern.

I wouldn't want Venice back because I want Italy as a single civ corresponding to Medieval through Modern Italy in all forms, but the design was pretty decent.
 
The notion they had never founded any may be bunk, but an interesting design needs not necessarily be accurate. Design gameplay and flavor are key, accuracy is a very secondary concern.

I wouldn't want Venice back because I want Italy as a single civ corresponding to Medieval through Modern Italy in all forms, but the design was pretty decent.
Well, not having played Civ5, I haven't tried it, but is doesn't SOUND enjoyable to me. And, my point is a lack of desire for wholesale reprisals of endemic mechanics of previous iterations.
 
Every player should have designs they can enjoy, but not every design need to or even should be enjoyable to every player. That's a road to bland sameness.

It's okay that there are civs that don't appeal to you, or to me. They appeal to other people. That's why we have so many of them.
 
Civs with very strange and interesting bonuses make for good change of pace. They should still be simple but, a Civ that plays like no other allows for freedom of expression.

There's something so iconic about Civ5 Venice, being the totally rich guy who has only one city. It's like really encompassing a particular flavour. Like others said, it's not necessarily historically accurate.

There should be a wide variety of Civs. With some playing totally vanilla and behaving like "starter" Civs. And some should be slightly crazier.

I would love a Papal State in the same vein as Venice. Can you win by putting the entire world under you religion as only one city?
These almost behave like Challenge Civs. It's really cool and I wish there were more of these.

Inuit challenge Civ anyone??

Although I do understand there's not much design space for stuff like this.
 
Civs with very strange and interesting bonuses make for good change of pace. They should still be simple but, a Civ that plays like no other allows for freedom of expression.

There's something so iconic about Civ5 Venice, being the totally rich guy who has only one city. It's like really encompassing a particular flavour. Like others said, it's not necessarily historically accurate.

There should be a wide variety of Civs. With some playing totally vanilla and behaving like "starter" Civs. And some should be slightly crazier.

I would love a Papal State in the same vein as Venice. Can you win by putting the entire world under you religion as only one city?
These almost behave like Challenge Civs. It's really cool and I wish there were more of these.

Inuit challenge Civ anyone??

Although I do understand there's not much design space for stuff like this.
An attempt at designing a Hunnic civilization that completely changes the way you play the game. I didn't have a clear concept in mind and made up everything as I went along (in one go!) So I am particularly looking for feedback to this one because there may definitely be a lot of holes that need stitching:

Civilization: Hunnic Empire (Nomadic Empire): • Settlers trained in half the time, but cannot settle cities, instead settle Hunnic Outposts. Only basic infrastructure can be built for an Outpost and population growth is extremely slow, however can be boosted by capturing Barbarian Outposts and razing cities. Outposts can be upgraded into cities upon unlocking Nationalism. Only the capital starts as a city. Upon losing the capital, your first ever outpost becomes a city.
• Can capture Barbarian Outposts and convert them to your empire. Doing this causes all Barbarian units within 4 tiles to join your empire.
• Can choose between razing and vassalising cities. Cannot control production of a vassalised city, but its growth and production is reduced at the expense of increasing such for your Outposts. Vassalised cities also grant a small sum of GPT.
• Razing cities grants a burst of Production, Food, Faith, Science and Culture, as well as distributing the razed cities' citizens into your Outposts and capital.
• Mounted units do not require Horses, however their base strength is increased for every Horses resource connected.
• Normal pillaging bonuses doubled. Pillaging Mines and Quarries grants a burst of Production to all your Outposts. Pillaging Farms and Pastures grants a burst of Food to all your Outposts.
Leader: Attila (Scourge of God): Pillaging Theatre Squares and Holy Sites of an empire decreases that empire's units' strength by -5-10% for every pillage.
Unique Unit: Kur: Unique mounted archer unit. Can move after attacking.
Unique District: Battle Camp: Another type of military district that does not replace the Encampment and can be built in the same city. Battle Camps are not fortified, and multiple can be built in the same city so long as they are 2-4 tiles away from one another. Battle Camps provide an additional production queue for only military units.

This was my attempt at designing a horde civilization that has a penalty to normal growth and infrastructure but can make up for it with bonuses from pillaging and razing. On the downside it's not a civ you can go for a victory with, it's more of a scenario where you try to stay afloat, but I don't mind that as much as other people, I don't often play for a victory anyway
 
This was my attempt at designing a horde civilization that has a penalty to normal growth and infrastructure but can make up for it with bonuses from pillaging and razing. On the downside it's not a civ you can go for a victory with, it's more of a scenario where you try to stay afloat, but I don't mind that as much as other people, I don't often play for a victory anyway
It also, er, goes against my complaint regarding complicated abilities
 
I really like it! I do think it could have less text and still be effective (eg. Remove the explanation of puppets, consider that the game would have puppets by default)

A simpler version of this Civ could exist, just by giving a big bonus to razing and you removing settling and annexing.

I really like the outposts idea. I would worry a bit about balance but it is a good start
 
Yes, much of the complication of this text comes from abilities that would in practice probably want to be generic options.
 
I've said before, to give us both a larger variety of basic Civ types and cover historically important and interesting groups that the game has not modeled well in the past, I think the game needs two things:

1. A decent model for the City State polities that at least makes them competitive - and given the modern examples of 'city-states' like Singapore and Dubai there's no reason they can't actually strive for certain types of Victory Conditions right to End of Game.
2. A model for the pastoral nomadic groups that dominated central Asia for almost 2500 years and had a huge impact on their Civ-normal settled neighbors.

For discussion, let's take the pastoral groups that @Bonyduck Campersang's Hun model depicts.
To start with, they were not all completely Non-City-Building (or 'acquiring'). While Attila's European Huns collapsed as soon as Big A bit the dust, other longer-established Hun groups like the Hephthalites and Kidarites, and other pastoral groups like the Scythians, Avars, Magyars, Kushans, and Mongols either turned other people's cities into vassals, or made them into their own, or founded a few: cities were never the sources of their military power, but many were real manufacturing hubs and major trade nodes for them.

Second, they were not Technological backwaters for most of those 2500 years. We are now pretty sure that a number of very important tech advances originated with the steppe pastorals, like the spoked wheel chariot for certain and the composite bow and 4-wheeled cart with front-axle steering mechanisms as possibilities. The sophisticated lost-wax casting technique seems to appear in central Asia before anywhere else, also, which would be surprising if we didn't also know that the early pastorals were sources for minerals they exploited in their territories and traded to settled neighbors.

Third, and possibly most important to their difference from settled states, the source of their military power was not from any cities, but from the lifestyle of their mounted herding population, scattered about in smaller tribal/clan/family camps. Virtually all of the adults in these camps were mounted archers, a military type very difficult for any settled state to produce in numbers because of the time and space required to raise horses, train them and train numbers of men (and women) in both horsemanship and mounted archery. Quite simply, you cannot do any of this on a large scale in a city, and as the Tang Chinese discovered, setting aside large tracts of land to feed horses means it is not feeding your peasant farmers - and they resent that to the point of rebellion.

Now, I've already suggested revamping the Barbarian Camp/Tribal Hut system into uniform Settlements, and allowing Civs to create smaller-than-city Settlements to exploit Resources or provide Trading Posts to extend land trade routes. This also provides a ready-made model for the Pastoral Camps.

The difference between 'regular' and Pastoral Settlements, I suggest, might be:
Regular Settlements can work/improve 1 tile adjacent to the tile the Settlement is on. Pastorals, being more mobile, can work 1 adjacent tile plus any tile with an Animal Resource within 2 tiles of the Settlement tile. (This 'wider range' also reflects implicitly the mobility of the pastoral wagon-based camps without having to physically move them around the map, which would be Micromanagement at its Worst). The single adjacent Improvement and 1 Animal Resource Improvement are Free and may be automatically placed with the Settlement. Improving more Animal or other Resources around the Settlement requires a Worker, just as City Improvements do.

Each Pastoral Settlement can produce 1 Mounted Archer (or the Unique Unit for the pastoral group). Any other type of unit must be produced in Cities or hired from outside groups, like city states, friendly foreign Settlements, or even Civs (Note that Dacians fought for the European Huns and the Mongols later had both Chinese and Persians fighting for them as infantry, siege artillery, and other 'specialists')

A Pastoral Settlement can be placed on a tile by any Pastoral Settler. It takes a second Settler to turn a Pastoral Settlement into a City - but Pastoral Settlers cost about half what 'regular' Settlers do. Pastoral Settlements, like regular Settlements, cannot produce or support Districts other than certain types like Holy Sites. They can support certain Wonders, but only those specified as being Non-Urban (Stonehenge, Pyramids, etc)

Pastoral Workers are required to Improve tiles for a city, and are produced in a City or from captures (see below).

Any 'foreign' Settlement or City captured by a Pastoral combat unit produces a Pastoral Settler OR Worker as the pastoral player desires. This destroys the other Settlement, but not necessarily the City.

Pastoral land Trade Routes have increased Range compared to regular land trade routes. Pastorals can also Trade Resources they obtain from a third party - literally acting as 'middlemen' between two other Civs or City States.

Pastoral Settlements, depending on the resources they are exploiting, can produce Science, Production, Food, Religion just as regular Cities can, but normally in smaller amounts.

Obviously, in addition to this 'basic Pastoral Framework', Unique attributes and units could be added for specific Pastoral Civilizations like Attila's Huns, Genghis' Mongols, and a host of other potential groups between the Hungarian plain and Mongolia.

Just initial thoughts, but it might provide the beginning of a framework for modeling the pastoral nomads, and by not making them completely Non-City-Building also provides for their transition to 'regular' Civilization that will be required for them to survive longer than the great Pastoral Empires did.

Just a note, though: several of the 'standard' Civilizations in the game started out as Pastoral Groups and graduated to 'regular' civs relatively early: Persians, Ottomans, Mongols for three that spring to mind . . .
 
1. A decent model for the City State polities that at least makes them competitive - and given the modern examples of 'city-states' like Singapore and Dubai there's no reason they can't actually strive for certain types of Victory Conditions right to End of Game.
I'm not sure this is a good idea. It should be possible for City State-like Civilisation choices (you know, like Venice) to win the game, but ideally it should be harder - not equally as competitive.
The huge sprawling empires can and should achieve more than single cities.
But, I would like to say that picks like this should be able to have some niche interesting Diplomatic choices.

So, this is addressing Tall vs Wide more than anything - but little Civs of 2-3 cities and City states should have open to them (through some system) unique choices, tech options, or policies, which gives them some advantage over Wide players.

This could give super-Tall, city-state factions the ability to have a niche, not in the conventional sense. Kind of like real life.
(Sorry for the mess of an argument)


I'm not a history buff, so I can't say for sure, but I would imagine it's easier to govern less people than it would be a huge state.
So huge states could have a science bonus (more researchers), and little states could have a culture/policy bonus (easier governance due to less people)
You could then use these policies to 'refine' your city-state Civilisation into a chosen niche like Economic (Hence, modern day Dubai, Singapore)
 
This was my attempt at designing a horde civilization that has a penalty to normal growth and infrastructure but can make up for it with bonuses from pillaging and razing. On the downside it's not a civ you can go for a victory with, it's more of a scenario where you try to stay afloat, but I don't mind that as much as other people, I don't often play for a victory anyway
Probably a better implementation of the Huns than what Civ 5 did. At least it's better than founding random cities from other civilizations city lists.
 
I'm not sure this is a good idea. It should be possible for City State-like Civilisation choices (you know, like Venice) to win the game, but ideally it should be harder - not equally as competitive.
The huge sprawling empires can and should achieve more than single cities.
But, I would like to say that picks like this should be able to have some niche interesting Diplomatic choices.

So, this is addressing Tall vs Wide more than anything - but little Civs of 2-3 cities and City states should have open to them (through some system) unique choices, tech options, or policies, which gives them some advantage over Wide players.

This could give super-Tall, city-state factions the ability to have a niche, not in the conventional sense. Kind of like real life.
(Sorry for the mess of an argument)


I'm not a history buff, so I can't say for sure, but I would imagine it's easier to govern less people than it would be a huge state.
So huge states could have a science bonus (more researchers), and little states could have a culture/policy bonus (easier governance due to less people)
You could then use these policies to 'refine' your city-state Civilisation into a chosen niche like Economic (Hence, modern day Dubai, Singapore)
The basic problem with 'City State Civs' or Tall Civs is that in a game where there is no overwhelming punishment for it, small states get conquered sooner or later unless they have the classic Starting Position Behind a Mountain With Only One Tile Leading To It. And even then survival ain't certain.

And I suggest that at least part of the problem is the Victory Conditions.

"One More Turn" is a Myth. What has always been important is The Last Turn and how you are doing Then and only then. Gotten to Mars? Conquered the last foreign Capital? Converted the last bunch of Taoist holdouts? Victory Conditions have always been based on how you do in the Last Turn of the game, and everything before that is just Preliminaries.

So how about changing that.

Make one or more Victory Conditions based on How You Play the game instead of How You End It.

Had the largest percentage of your Population Ecstatic for the largest number of turns: achieve "This Happy Land" Victory.

Went the entire game without a rebellion, civil war, or Free City breakaway: achieve "Harmonious Realm"Victory

Never had a famine or food shortage in any city: achieve "Seven Fat Years" Victory.

And note that the three examples would all be easier for a small state to achieve than a large one . . .
 
Here's my hunnic implementation:
Spoiler Hunnic Civilization :

Unique Civilization Ability - Barbarian Invasion
Player is at Peace with Barbarians and at War with all other players by default. (can enter enter temporary peace deals with major civs in exchange for gold)
Automatically razes captured cities at double speed.
Has access to a unique policy tree.
No unit supply Limit or War Weariness (if those exist in the next game)

Unique Civilization improvement - Barbarian Encampment
a regular Barbarian encampment that spawns barbarians at regular intervals
Must be built in neutral territory at least 3 tiles away from another Barbarian camp.

Unique Civilization Unit - Tarkhan
Replaces the Settler.
Mounted combat unit.
Cannot settle, but can construct Barbarian encampments.
Has a unique action that converts adjacent Barbarians to your side.
When pillaging tiles, Heals all adjacent owned and barbarian units for half the value it healed itself.
Units that capture cities are upgraded into Tarkhans

Leader Attila
Unique Leader Ability - Scourge of God

Gain 1 Science and Culture for each Gold received from other players via Demands, Peace Deals, and City-State Tributes.
Gain Culture, Gold, and Science for each building destroyed when razing a city. Bonus for World Wonders is tripled.

Unique Leader Improvement: Ulticur
Buildable by expending Great Generals in unowned land. Claims all Adjacent tiles.
+100% defense on tile
Spawns your best Heavy and Light Cavalry units available at regular intervals

Note: this is the only way the Huns can claim land, allowing them to upgrade units.

Unique Leader Unit: Raider
Unique classical skirmisher unit
No Strategic resource requirement.
Available earlier.
Coverted Barbarian units can upgrade into Raiders in your territory.
If you're going to design a civ where you "play as the Barbarians" then by George let me play as the barbarians.
 
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Here's my hunnic implementation:
Spoiler Hunnic Civilization :

Unique Civilization Ability - Barbarian Invasion
Player is at Peace with Barbarians and at War with all other players by default. (can enter enter temporary peace deals with major civs in exchange for gold)
Automatically razes captured cities at double speed.
Has access to a unique policy tree.
No unit supply Limit or War Weariness (if those exist in the next game)

Unique Civilization improvement - Barbarian Encampment
a regular Barbarian encampment that spawns barbarians at regular intervals
Must be built in neutral territory at least 3 tiles away from another Barbarian camp.

Unique Civilization Unit - Tarkhan
Replaces the Settler.
Mounted combat unit.
Cannot settle, but can construct Barbarian encampments.
Has a unique action that converts adjacent Barbarians to your side.
When pillaging tiles, Heals all adjacent owned and barbarian units for half the value it healed itself.
Units that capture cities are upgraded into Tarkhans

Leader Attila
Unique Leader Ability - Scourge of God

Gain 1 Science and Culture for each Gold received from other players via Demands, Peace Deals, and City-State Tributes.
Gain Culture, Gold, and Science for each building destroyed when razing a city. Bonus for World Wonders is tripled.

Unique Leader Improvement: Ulticur
Buildable by expending Great Generals in unowned land. Claims all Adjacent tiles.
+100% defense on tile
Spawns your best Heavy and Light Cavalry units available at regular intervals

Note: this is the only way the Huns can claim land, allowing them to upgrade units.

Unique Leader Unit: Raider
Unique classical skirmisher unit
No Strategic resource requirement.
Available earlier.
Coverted Barbarian units can upgrade into Raiders in your territory.
If you're going to design a civ where you "play as the Barbarians" then by George let me play as the barbarians.

All well and good until your one and only city gets nuked :D
 
My Huns have no cities. They place super-improvements in neutral land and periodically spawn units
 
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