COTM 12 - First Spoiler (End of Ancient Age)

Predator, barb fix

I'm going to try the 20k this month. I noticed that all the water is lake so I could settle in place or head in any direction. I decided to scout a bit before settling. Scout heads 2S, and finds some plains forest, but no more water. Worker heads NW and finds incense and some grass forest. I like the looks of grass over plains so settler heads NW toward the grass. Checking F10 shows FOUR scientific civs. I'm wondering if 20k is a good idea with fast science, but decide to try anyway. Scout 2W finds some more lake, whil the settler heads W toward the grass, and finds a deer off to the north, worker follows. Looks like we're walking a bit more. Settler and worker NW, finding the 2nd deer. Settler heads one more turn N to get next to the deer, while worker starts roading the incense. Mecca finally founded in 3800BC and start Pottery at 100%.

Mecca builds scout, scout, granary, settler (2550BC), worker.

Settler founds Medina w of cow (2N,NW of Mecca). This will be 20k city.

Medina builds:
2110BC Temple
1000BC Pyramids
900BC Library
825BC Colosseum (partially rushed with courthouse)
630BC Forbidden Palace

Enter Middle Ages, building Great Library in Medina.

Contacts:
3500BC France
3300BC Russia
3100BC Ottomans
1500BC Korea

Science:
3300BC Pottery
3150BC Masonry from Russia (to allow Palace prebuild)
2950BC Mysticism from hut
2630BC Wheel
2390BC Iron Working from Otto
2110BC Math from hut
1950BC Writing
1600BC Code of Laws
1450BC Philosophy
1450BC Republic free
1300BC Literature
1300BC Polytheism from France
1125BC Map Making from Korea
1050BC Construction (this was a mistake, I should have gone for currency)
At this point I turn off research and build cash. Restart science in 710BC
610BC Currency entering MA

minimap at 610BC:


Medina at 610bc:


Mecca at 610bc (4 turn settler or 2 turn worker factory)


France seemed to be plagued by barbs as they grew extremely slowly. I helped keep them slow by buying workers every chance I could. I ended up buying 4 from them. I did my best to expand in every direction, blocking the choke point to Korea. Building the Pyramids was a decision aimed at growing my empire more quickly. I could have taken the Great Library for the extra culture, but I was worried that the Pyramids might end up on the other continent. I think I should have gone for Currency and traded for Construction, and even then I probably should have not turned off science for so long after getting Construction. The extra money was useful to help rush builds and for later upgrades.

@Redbad: I've compared my 20k culture to yours at 110BC using AlanH's 20k culture calc and it looks like you are at 776 and I am at 760. Pretty close. We'll have to see where we are at the next spoiler.

@AlanH: I had to use the FP to put Redbad's Mausoleum in as its not listed in the calculator. I also noticed a shield increase for Shakespeare I think it was. Do you have a C3C version of the calculator?

@Xevious

I think Alan's calculator only supports vanilla because he uses the a Mac. I myself use the one from SirPleb.
You can find it here

I like it that we are so close. I've finished the game and am anxious too to see how our games evolve. Last time I stayed close to Ionimplant until the Industrial Ages.

In the question to AlanH, I hope you meant the Mausoleum of Mausollos and not really my mausoleum .

I think Alan's calculator only supports vanilla because he uses the a Mac.

Click to expand...

Not strictly true. it supports PtW as well. My lack of a copy of C3C has nothing to do with the fact that I haven't added C3C wonders to the spreadsheet. I've never played a 20K game, so the effort was purely for technical interest, but I created it quite a while before we started supporting C3C in GOTM.

I think I know enough to add the C3C extras to it, but it's a long time since I produced it, and I've never quite got around to re-learning how it works to make the changes.

Open. Barbs fixed.

Opening plays

After failing at gotm42 i decided to go for a different approach. Rather than go wandering I settled on the spot and decided to pump out units. I then made my first mistake by building barracks first - the extra units would have been more usefull for exploring and MP. Once the Rax were built I switched to settler as i felt it was important to get at least one out ASAP. After that Mecca built archers and warriors ready to rush our nearest rival (I think others doing this on GOTM42 was the major reason for their success). The settler wandered to the NW towards the river with 2 game and a cow. This was to be the settler factory. In 1350 BC i had amassed a stack of archers on the russian border, and declared on them. In 1325bc I destroyed Yakateringburg as it was only size 1, and headed towards moscow. I had a bit of luck with the RNG when russia counter attacked a warrior who was escorting a settler - the warrior was redlined, but both survived. In 1125 Russia was prepared to give me peace and smolaresk, which i accepted as I wanted to regroup my forces, plus it ended Russia's expansion. At 1000bc I had 6 towns, 1 settler, 7 archers, 4 spears and 3 warriors (barbs had killed the scout), and things looked like this

d

I continued to build my military up ready to attack russia again, and had a spot of luck when they demanded tribute and declared following my refusal. In 590 BC I took Moscow and the pyramids, and abandoned Mecca (after popping a settler from it) the turn after hoping to palace jump to Moscow. Instead the Palace went to medina. Never mind, Russia now gave me an additional city for peace and I was now the most powerful on the continent. I took 2 further cities off them when the treaty ran out, and entered the MA at 50bc ready to finish them off.

d

I never realised archers could be so good.

I loathe exp civs. I just can't seem to do well with GH hunting. This game I got 1 tech, 25 gold, a useless warrior (which I disbanded) and maps, twice none the less
That came from 3 scouts...
Also, I decided to move scout S S in 4000 bc. 3950 it went S E, so I didn't spot the game and settled SE of the start. Medina was later founded as my 4-turn settler factory.
I didn't do too badly in the QSC though. Finished the slingshot and had 6 cities with another settler out and about.
Reached the ADs around 500 BC, at which point Ottos had lost Uskudar (which I held) and another city (which was razed) to my archers and I was building horses for the upgrade to Ansars.

I think there should be a special victory category in this game for those of us who never moved our capital from the initial starting tile. That was hard work!! I was able to win the game, but I've never had to work so hard to get settlers.

Was I the only guy that failed te Republic slingsot? I purposely kept writing away from every civ on my continent, but I lost the free tech to somebody else on the other continent.

First attempt at C3C/COTM.
Open, Barbs fixed.

Game plan: explore Expansionist trade to quickly gain AA techs, get Chivalry ASAP and then conquer the world with Ansar Warriors.

4000BC. Scout N, sees lake and food bonuses. Settle in place as the trek to good lands seems too long, but plan to send the 1st settler there (looking at others here I think I would be better off trekking).
Build scout, warrior, scout, scout, settler.

Hit F10 and consult the books as C3C traits are still new to me:
Players: Russians (Sci, Exp), French (Comm, Ind.), English (Sea, Comm.), Ottomans(Ind, Sci), Koreans(Sci, Com), Byzantines (Sea, Sci), Portuguese(Exp, Sea).

Two more Expansionists to compete for GHs. Not good. FOUR scientific Civs! Good. I want fast AA research. And only we are religious, with CB being monopoly tech - very good.

Research: Mysticism, aiming for Monarchy slingshot.

3500BC - WC from GH.
3300BC - BW from GH.
3150BC - meet Ottomans. Get Masonry+10g for Pot&CB.
3100BC - meet Korea. Get Alpha & Wheel for Pottery, Masonry, WC & CB. See at least 2 Horses close by.
2670BC - Medina founded on northern Deer/Cow, starts on granary. Mysticism researched, started on Polytheism.
2630BC - meet Russians. Sell Alpha to them so they can research Writing.
2590BC - Ottomans declare on us with 1 warrior(WTH?! - AI weren't that stupid in Vanilla). He attacks my hilly capital and dies.
2470BC - HBR from GH. That GH was on the border of a Russian city, maybe in 6 tiles from Moscow. (WTH? Expansionist AI Civ would never miss such a GH in Vanilla.)
2390BC - meet France. They still have only 1 city! But have a worker for sale. Give them Pottery for worker and 10g. (Later I saw that they had 2 volcanoes in their land: probably they got hit by them).
My warrior from GH pillages Ottoman's Cow. That's all he was good for. he dies the next turn.
2350BC - Scout witnesses barbarians killing unprotected Russian settler. Sweet!
2310BC. - Barabarians kill my Scout. Not sweet.
2270BC. - IW from Korea for Myst & HB. Now where's Iron? Darn, it's under Ottoman's nose and too far from my settler factory in Medina to get it before Otto. And another Iron is over the isthmus.
2110BC - 2nd Scout killed by barbs.
1750BC - The last Scout spends a turn next to Barb village and survives (WTH?! Barbs weren't that stupid in Vanilla, and that's AFTER they were fixed)
1675BC - Ottomans want Wheel for peace. Bah!
1500BC - Russia demands Mysticism, we give. Then get Writing and 110g from them for IW and HBR.
1350BC - peace with Otto, I give them Alpha for peace as having to build archers drains my resourses. Baghdad is founded on Southern Deer/Incense, Damascus close to Russian Silks.
1225BC - in a round of trading get Polytheism from Otto and Math from Russians. Can get Philosophy in 6 turns with Scientists.
1075BC - Research Philosophy, pull Monarchy slingshot, revolt.
1050BC - we are in Monarchy.
1025BC - in a round of trading get MM from Russians, Currency from Koreans and 2 workers from Otto, plus all their cash. Researching Construction.

QSC - 1000BC. 6 towns, 14 pop. 1 settler, 5 workers (incl. 3 slaves), 8 warriors, 1 archer, 1 scout. 1 granary, 1 barracks, 1 temple. 4 contacts, 780g, all AA techs except CoL and Construction, we are the Monarchy.

450 BC - research Construction, start on CoL, then trade it from Russians for Incense and 30g. Enter MA.
Russians have Feudalism. Sell to/gift Korea, they get Mono, sell to us for Monarchy, all our cash (557) and 2gpt. Try to trade Mono to Russians for Feudalism but they are not interested.
I don't want to gift Otto as he is still a menace to us and has grabbed Iron by this time.

Plan for MA: get Iron by the time we get Chivalry. Did we succeed? See next spoiler.

Attached: 1000BC.

Capt Buttkick said:

Reached the ADs around 500 BC, ...

Click to expand...

Did you discover a time machine?

Nata said:

1750BC - The last Scout spends a turn next to Barb village and survives... Barbs weren't that stupid in Vanilla, and that's AFTER they were fixed

Click to expand...

Yes sometimes; if one of them is alone in his precious camp he won't leave it for all the gold of Arabia . Forgive me if this was not the case here. Other than that, your exclamations are understandable.

Xevious said:

Did you discover a time machine?

Click to expand...

Strike that. I entered the MA. Abbreviations in a foreign language

budweiser said:

Was I the only guy that failed te Republic slingsot? I purposely kept writing away from every civ on my continent, but I lost the free tech to somebody else on the other continent.

Click to expand...

No, I failed that too, small comfort though. I suck.

Open

Arrrr, it looks like I was hoist by my own petard this time. I had negative experiences hiking my settler all over the place recently, so this time I set him down 1 tile sw of start. At 1000BC I had only 6 cities and 17 citizens (and 1 settler), compared to 10 or 11 for some of the hikers. Whatever, things seemed to go well anyway.
My strategy was basic. Research as fast as possible to Chivalry, take over the world. Be a monarchy(I thought it best), and try to pick a profitable time to switch to Republic.
I went open, yes, losing a tech seemed a little too much. However, I didn't want a granary in Mecca anyway once I saw the surrounding lands. I chose to research Mysticism and Polytheism right away, and take Monarchy as the free tech (which happened in 1250BC). Had I gone predator, I could have traded for Pottery without affecting my game at all science-wise. No guilty feelings though.
The ancient ages were rather uneventful. I played rope-a-dope with Russian settlers to slow their growth and take the lands they headed for. I realize now after reading the other posts that this slowed my own scientific progress as well. I couldn't just let them have the prime land though. I was extorted several times and gave in. I built 2 additional scouts right at the start, but gained only 1 tech (the wheel in 2710) for my efforts, and later saw those scouts slaughtered by barbs before really scouting very much at all.
I attempted to outsmart the AI and research myself the techs that they seem to pick up last. After learning Monarchy in 1250 I studied Construction (learned in 900 BC). I was able to trade it for Literature in 825, which I promptly sold Cheap to everybody to encourage more science. Traded for Map Making in 710, researched Currency in 590, which I was able to trade for CoL from Russia in the interturn and enter the middle ages. At all times during the AA I tried to sacrifice production to science when faced with the choice. The very first turn I spent working an oasis rather than a coast tile and lost a turn of research, so in a perfect world my strategy would have got me into the MA at 610BC.
This is where my game might have been improved. I really believed that Monarchy would be a better government for science in the AA, since at the beginning unit support can be such a problem, and being religious we can switch without terrible penalties. Now that I've done it, I think it would have been faster to save Monarchy for periods of everlasting war, if used at all.
Still, at this point I'm very optimistic. I have only 12 towns, but growth is taking off. The central Mecca isn't so bad, I'll have 2 settler pumps with low corruption. I kept iron out of Otto's hands, and think I can keep Cathy away from horses if I'm careful. Most encouraging of all, in 790 BC I noticed that the 4 civs I know are attempting 12 wonders between them- wasting all those shields, how many defenders can they build?

Open
Roaming barbarians

Moved the scout north instead of south after tasting the sweet water north and then moved the settler north to the coast. Mecca was built in 3900BC (T3) on the hill at the south end of Big Lake keeping the oases and claiming the riverside game.

Very quickly put out scouts (four of them) and in short order met all the neighbors and started mapping the coastlines and busting barbarian villages for maps, money and a couple of techs.

It was not until 1910BC (T47) that Medina was built near the horses to the NW and Damascus in 1650BC (T55) on the choke between the bays. Baghdad was built in the spine if hills south of Mecca in 1500BC (T61) and Najran on the coast SE of Baghdad in 1200BC (T73).

Mecca produced settlers and escort warriors throughout the first 4000 years while the other towns built barracks and when the horses were connected began building the army of horsemen that were to dominate the late Ancient and early Middle Ages.

Research was set to the Republic gambit and the United Arab Republic was formed in 710BC (T91) following a short war with Russia to raze Novgorod which had been built on the sweet spot NW of Mecca.



The result was a rather nasty recession as the military was too big and the towns too small to support the army effectively, so research was shut off whiile more towns were built in the space to the east moving towards Korea and the source of Iron in the mountains.

The successful Republican gambit was the key to the Middle Ages, however, as I was able to trade for all the Ancient Age knowledge and was researching Feudalism by 290BC (T113).

open, fixed barbs

After looking at the starting spot, I decided to found on the spot. I figured those two oasises would be enough to build several scouts then get a settler to go to a better spot where a settler factory could be built. I eventually got Medina founded to the NW of Mecca between the cattle and game. It took me a while to get it running efficiently. I couldn't get enough shields to make a settler in 4 turns, and eventually it settled into a 5-turn factory. Two turns at +5fpt and 3 turns at +4fpt. The Russians expanded quickly in my game and hemmed me in to the north, and the Ottomans also took good spots in the south, including the silks. The French expanded slowly and the Koreans were far enough away to not cause too much trouble. I was the first to Philosophy and chose Map Making as my free tech. This got me a galley to send a settler to the Iron on the island.

Here are my QSC highlights:
4000BC: found Mecca on spot
2670BC: Medina founded
1700BC: Damascus founded
1475BC: Baghdad founded
1300BC: Philosophy researched, free tech = Map Making
1250BC: Najran founded
1225BC: Kufah founded
1075BC: Basra founded on Iron island

1000BC summary
7 towns, 14 population
1 settler, 5 workers, 9 warriors, 1 archer, 1 galley, 1 scout
1 granary, 1 barracks, 2 temples
4 contacted civs, embassies with each
GSC score: 2905

My territory at 1000BC (Basra to SE not shown).


The rest of the ancient age consisted of continued land grabbing and starting a military buildup. Wonders of note built by AI include Pyramids (France), Temple of Artemis (Russia), and Hanging Gardens (Ottomans). I was able to found 6 more towns in the ancient age. I became a Republic in 470BC, and researched currency in 230BC, entering the Medieval age.

Here is my minimap in 230BC.


From here I am building horsemen and planning to upgrade to Ansar Warriors when I research Chivalry. I don't plan on founding any more towns. I will try to conquer the rest of the continent with Ansar Warriors, taking Ottomans first, then France, then Russia. I may let Korea stay if they play nice.

edit: 100th post! That only took me 2.5 years.

Predator. Barbs fixed.

Settled in place. I played this session in about 2 hours one Sunday after noon while drinking a beer. I am over 21. The results were mixed but I stopped the session 5 turns before republic and before things got too far out of hand. Then it sat for about 3 days before I picked it up again. I saw that it would be a conquest style game with us in the middle and I wasn’t sure I was up for it.

Exploration - I sent out three scouts. I found Russia, france, and the ottomans. I didn’t scout korea’s portion of the map until last. There were not too many goodie huts, I managed to find a few down near ottoman/france. I got nothing good.

Research wise, I tried for the republic slingshot at 100%, researching CoL before philosophy, keeping writing away from the local guys. But, I failed the slingshot so I knew I must be facing some advanced tribes on the other land mass. So I self researched republic and got it around 550BC. At this point I had nine towns and I traded my way out of the age. My central position and the monarchy difficulty level and the enemy’s remote positions allowed me to keep a slight tech advantage through out the age.

Expansion – The bad land that we all could see turned out to be pretty small. There was almost a mirror image of good land to the east and west. That is where I sent my next two settlers to set up dual settler pumps. By this time I had managed to acquire pottery. I also settled a few more towns to the NW towards Russia, and one to the NE towards korea. The general theme became, build a town and get ready for the GA meaning get a barracks and a temple, maybe a market and enough pop to have a decent shot of making Ansars.

Horses – I found the horses to the west and founded on them.

Iron – I saw iron to the SE in Ottoman hands. I tried a late AA war to get it but failed. I didn’t manage to acquire iron in the first age.

Luxuries – The luxury placement was really great and there was no problem getting enough to support a decent republic.

Extermination – Halfway through the age my tech trading was giving me some cash. I think I gave into a demand from france/ottomans but when Russia came looking I told them where they could go and they declared. Luckily I had two regular archers near a Russian settlement. That was barely enough to destroy the town (fool heartiness enhanced by beer). Russia gave peace and two cities in their backfield and maybe a tech. I set the free towns to scientists and made workers out of them. Another beer mistake was disbanding the towns when the workers were finished giving me a hit on science and military support. But the war ended well. I also fought an AA war against the ottomans and gained a town or two and a luxury. France was my ally.

Thus ended the first age. I knew I only had the time it would take to research three techs to get my empire ready to pump Ansars and take the world. I didn’t know who or where the other three civs were. I could see that the only enemy with iron was the ottomans. But my military was till smallish, being sqaundered in a failed attack on the ottomans. I fought them twice in the ancient age, once for a luxury, once for iron.

Open.

After looking at the starting location i decided to move the scout to the hill N,NW because i didn't like either the mountains&swamps to the NE, plains without fresh water to the SE and desert to the SW, while water to the NW was a fresh lake (gave 2 food) and there was hope to see something good on the other side from the hill. I saw a river, forest on grassland and game, so i lead my people from the desert and into the promised land The promised land came out to be really cool: there was another game and a cow.

After settling started building a granary straight away, chopping forest to speed it up. I gave the cow to my second city and the two game tiles (one mined, one irrigated) to the capitol. After that for a while i only built settlers, workers and granaries, not even scouts or warriors. There was not much good land available, so i only founded a few cities around my capitol. With lots of workers i quickly got the population of major cities to high levels running a high luxury tax. The ai didnt like the desert either, so i decided to go for conquest. I built barracks everywhere and started building horsmen, prepairing to attack the ottomans (they had the iron, which i needed to build ansars).

Since i only had one scout, i didn't do much exploration, my scout only found the russians and the koreans, but i made contact with ottomans and the french pretty soon seeing their warriors that were wandewring around. I researched Writing, Philosophy, Literature(free) and Currency. I was lucky to get Construction from a goody hut (the only tech that i got from GH) and that took me to the MA in 975 BC (All other techs i traded).

In 975 BC I have 6 Horsemen, and building new ones quickly, planning to destroy the ottomans. I am researching Monarchy. All my cities are building horsemen except for Basra, my only coastal city, which is building galleys to look for the other continent.

Well it appears that klarius, Obormot, and I were the only ones to settle the first city to the NW. I guess we will see if we are complete idiots or not. The good thing was that we got the incense and had a great location for city on a river with deer for the second one. Also, horses were very close by. The problem of course arose when I learned Iron Working and saw that there was no iron nearby. The Ottomans grabbed the iron in the south before I knew where it was. Luckily, Russia didn't have any iron either and kept traipsing her settlers across my lands to the south. The NW area has proved to be a great chokehold point. While destroying the Russians, the French and Ottomans were strutting their settlers through my lands to the north. This will prove most advantageous in the MA. I have found some iron that no one has claimed in Korean territory. So now I must try to grab it before learning chivalry. To be continued...

On a side note, my scouts sucked royally. All I got was gold and maps from huts, ie no techs!

Zelda's Man said:

Well it appears that klarius, Obormot, and I were the only ones to settle the first city to the NW. I guess we will see if we are complete idiots or not.

Click to expand...

You must have missed my post above, as I also settled NW. I certainly don't think we're idiots. I have been quite happy with the long walk so far.

I think that Zelda's Man is right that the major problem of you, westerners, is the lack of iron. On another hand, I think that your spot is slightly more productive. We, easterners did not get a moo.

I think it will be very interesting to look on QSC statistic and how people will perform depending on a settlement. IMHO the worst choice was not to move.