SGOTM6 - Team Peanut

Below is the first spoiler.
Please review
--------------------------

early expansion
capital - settled NW/NW it was a dedicated settler factory for a long long time
focused on expansion first than culture
A lot of barbs activety. most of them handled by the AI.
In 2110BC the capital produce first settler
We had few workers at the start, but as the game progressed we put some more importance on it.
We set up 3/6 RCP rings
While our core cities produced settlers/military our corrupted cities pop rushed culture buildings.

Research
Started minimum on mysticism
Bought pottery for handful of gold from Mongols and sell it to chain
In 2070BC civ_steve produce magnificent trading round that gave us alphabet, masonry, bronze working, the wheel + contact with iroq.
Full speed on math but we lost the math gambit everybody already had it by the time we learnt it.
Another wonderful trading session by civ_steve resulted in the entire world map, 6 new techs (IrW, Writing and HBackRide, and also MapMaking, Code-of-Laws and Philosophy), contact with Babylon with the negligible cost of 12gpt.
Start full speed on lit.
Gain all AA techs in peace deals
0 research from that point. all the gained techs made at gun point.

Contacts
* 3150BC china. up 1 tech
* 3050BC Mongols. up 5 techs.
* 2150CB our contact was sold to India and Carthage
* 2070BC Iroquois
* 1910 Japan (already took Delhi from India at this point)
* 1475 all the rest

1000BC status:
10 cities, 23 pop
Knows all AI civs. 5 techs left in AA (3 required).
1 settler, 9 workers, 17 warriors, 1 archer, 1 eqWorker.
3 granaries, 3 barracks, 1 temple.
150 culture.
618g

Warfare
We started gathering cash and producing warriors for future upgrade to Gallic swordsmen.
in 710BC we upgraded 12 warriors to GS
in 670BC we declare war on China, capture a city and our golden age started.
we continued to connect/disconnect the iron to produce warriors for a long long time.
In the middle of the war with China Japan declared on us and allied the Mongols against us.
In 470BC we sign peace with China and get all the techs we need to advance to a new age.
The first war was very successful we got several cities by force and few more in peace deal. afterwards china was crippled (2 cities).
after few more turns we sign peace with the Mongols and start focusing our forces against Japan.
In 390BC we land 4 GS near the closest city of Japan to take that city in 370BC.
12 more SG joined them in 350BC.
In 330BC Carthage decided to declare war on us without any reason.
our war in Japan progressed nicely during the golden age, and slowed down a bit afterwards.
We signed peace with both Carthage and Japan in 310BC
We took from Japan 7 cities + 1 in peace deal. we got another city in peace deal from Carthage.
Our forces from the war with Japan rolled over to fight in iroq land.

from that point we alternated our wars between our neighbors pushing our borders further and further, gaining many cities in the process.

On 310AD we decided that France is too strong and getting stronger. We declared war on them, establish embassies in London and Babylon and ally them against France.
France allied some of our neighbors against us which fuelled the war fire.
the war in France slowed the tech race way down. they even moved from democracy to republic.
France however got the better of her neighbors and reduced England to 1 remote city.

In our local wars we capture Carthage's capital which held the great library. we immediately gifted the city to England (to use TGL later on).
Later on that city flipped back to cartage but since we were at war with Carthage at the same time we captured it and gave it back to England.

We are now in control of most of the southern hemisphere (our team captain should be pleased at that)

regarding culture flips - we had only 1 Viking city flipping to us!

AA Wonders (we did not built any wonders ourselves)
1375BC - Oracle - Babylon
1200BC - Pyramids - France
1175BC - Colossus - France
950BC - Lighthouse - England
825BC - Wall - France
510BC - TGL - Carthage
510BC - HG - America

To answer mad-bax questions:

1. Which Civs were strongest and how will it affect the game later.

Click to expand...

by far the strongest civ was France. we handled Japan early on so they were not such a big threat to us.

2. Which wonders are most important and any attempts to own them.

Click to expand...

The most important wonder (the pyramids) was built by France, so there were no way to get it.
The great library which is also very important to us was built by Carthage. we now have it stored by the lovely English people to be used later on.

3. Overall Strategy to win the game.

Click to expand...

expansion was the first consideration. we need plenty of room to hold all of our cities.
we first expanded nicely and then by force. we connected/disconnected the iron to produce GS faster.
all of corrupted cities was used to breed in order to rush culture buildings.

Looks good, both the turns and the spoiler

Great Job Mailman! (both for the turnset and the Spoiler write-up) On the score graph we've taken a dip (lot's of pop-rushing), but on the culture graph we've upticked a bit. Still neck and neck with RowandLive and Smackster; Jeffelammer is definitely leading us, and Offa looks to be far ahead. When this is over, it'll be interesting to see their tactics.

Only edit I think should definitely be made is to the 2nd line under the Research category: "Bought pottery for handful of gold from Mongols and sell it to chain" , change "chain" to "China" just to be clear. Otherwise, I think it's quite good. (And you're embarrassing me )

This map is a bit larger than the standard 100x100 map; Mad-Bax stated that 100K culture victory is the required victory condition, but I wonder if it might be a tad bit higher due to the larger map size. I guess we'll find out.

If we do indeed only need 100K culture, then at our current rate we are only 63 turns from Victory. After future growth and culture doubling, probably 50-55 turns or so, so somewhere around 1400 to 1425.

Things to look out for: Carthage (the English city) being reduced to 1 citizen; it would autoraze when captured then. And France's culture being more than 50,000; which I don't think they'll get to. Either of those would put a damper on our game ... if they happened. With the luxuries and resources we have, we should be able to keep trades going and the other powerful civs happy with us, if we want.

I guess I'm next. I've got it!

Well played turnset Mailman - you certainly delivered a fine result. Good juggling with the Library as well. It's good being master of the Southern Hemisphere - lets start civilizing that barbarian uncultured northern hemisphere as well.

Strategy from here - I guess it's a bit optimistic to think of taking the GL, and then marshalling an international alliance to take Paris and the Pyramids with a massive cavalry charge under Comrade Brennus. But it may be more fun than just expanding & build

BTW Carthage should not autoraze as it has a great wonder.

I have posted the spoiler.

Sorry this is taking so long. The Weekend has been busy and it's been difficult to break away.

Abe went to Monarchy once he came out of Anarchy. He's still at war with Joan (who is a Republic). I decide to grab the Great Library at that point, and we got up to Nationalism. Currently deciding on best path to research to Communism, anticipating a gpt trade with Joan at the end. I think we'll get it in 10-12 turns, depending on trades I'm able to make.

Very sorry for the delay. We had a bit of a family crisis Sunday, and I've just gotten the game to a reasonable stopping place. The Log:

Turn 0, 1060 AD
Very cool! We appear to have about twice France's culture, but are gaining culture at a much more rapid rate, so that shouldn't be an issue. I see railroads popping up in France, so Joan has Steam Power. Abe is in Anarchy, and is at war with Joan, so if he should pop out as Communistic, it will be time to get TGL.

There's that one island to our South with a Carthage city and Mongol and Japanese Settlers. In case that city flips to us, I'll station a Galley and a couple of Knights down there, ready to transport over and finish off the other two civs. For that to happen (if we want it to), we need to be sure that Carthage city doesn't become the capital.

I'm off

(IBT not much, lots of movement by Carthage)

Turn 1, 1070 AD
Send Galley to South; 1 newly made Knight is stationed in the South
Send Galley to occupied China; There's a Japanese LongB on an island with one of our cities, so I want to counter it.
Knights converging on India
Abe still in Anarchy
Rush 1 Temple and 2 Libraries

Turn 2, 1080 AD
Continue with Force convergance on India
Entremont finishes a Cathedral; back to a Settler

Turn 3, 1090 AD
Rush a couple of Harbors
Abe has become a Monarchy. Hmm, assuming France knows Communnism, Abe is at war with Joan so Communism might still be many turns away for him. Babylon is still Medieval; Carthage is IA, but we've taken several bites out of him. England and Vikings are severely reduced. Iroqouis and China are Gone, and Japan and Mongols effectively gone. I think it's time for the Great Library; if Abe knows Communism, great; if he doesn't but France does, we'll have to research/learn it from them.
Declare on England and take Carthage (and the Great Library)

Turn 4, 1100 AD
Great Library takes effect. We learn all remaining Medieval Techs (except Music Theory for some weird reason), and Nationalism.
Looking for more gold, we trade Horses to Carthage for 15 gpt.
Joan knows Communism. At 0% research with 1 Scientist, we are banking 100 gpt, and have 1882 Gold in the Treasury (and Communism in 40 turns). We can use Joan's knowledge of Communism, only if we put a real effort into learning Comm. At 100% research, we learn it in 11 turns, with -304 gpt (so we can only sustain 6 turns, about 54% of the research cost.) In between, 60% research rate gets us Comm in 15 turns at -201 gpt (about 9 turns for about 60% of the research). Abe is giving us 97 gpt for 3 resources, which expires in 5 turns, so a potential crisis point is coming up. Set research to 100%
Another trade: Vikings will trade us 120 Gold and 43 gpt for Nationalism; so we have 2002 gold, -261 gpt (7 turns, unless Abe or Ragnor renege.)
Gift a Luxury to Joan, to keep her happy with us.
We now know MilTrad, but can't afford to upgrade! So insist he withdraw troops, and he declares on us!
Take Pikeman/Settler pair, and we have two more workers
Capture Delhi (no losses vs 1 Pike, 1 Spear), advance towards Bombay
Rush 3 Cathedrals, 1 Library, 2 Temples
Make some scientists in lots of cities (but turns for Comm doesn't drop; currently shows 402 science/turn)

(IBT WE loses while attacking one of our Knights near Bombay)

Turn 5, 1110 AD
Capture Bombay, lose 2 Knights taking 1 Pike and 2 Spears, 5 Knights advance to Bangalore outskirts
Rush 1 Temple, 3 Libraries, 4 Cathedrals

(IBT our Knights near Bangalore are 1-2 vs WE's
Abe wants a Trade Embargo vs the Mongols - OK)

Turn 6, 1120 AD
Sign ROP with Vikings
France doesn't want to trade Communism - like, at all
Take care of 2 Wounded WE's, and regroup near Bangalore
4 Knights on outskirts of Lahore

(IBT Indian LongBows engage, killing 1 Knight and retreating a 2nd)

Turn 7, 1130 AD
Take Lahore, no losses vs 1 Spear and 1 LongBow
Kill Eng LongBow adjacent to Lahore
Take out 2 wounded Indian LongBows
Sign ROP with France (can we butter her up a bit, maybe?)
Rush 1 Library and 7 Temples

Turn 8, 1140 AD
Gather force near Bang
Rush 2 Temples, 1 Library and 2 Cathedrals

Turn 9, 1150 AD
Bangalore falls with no losses vs 1 Pike, 1 WE and 1 Spear
Jaipur falls with 1 Knight loss vs 1 Pike and 1 Spear
Army takes out WE escorting Settler
Sign Peace with England for 25 Gold
97 gpt deal with Abe is up, but he hasn't canceled yet
Rushed 2 each of Temple, Library and 4 of Cathedral

(IBT Abe cancels deal; we reinstate the trade, but only get 78 gpt now
France gives us a Peace renewal deal - Take it or we're at war; we take it
Hmm, I don't get the message "They'll never accept this deal" when I offer 1 gpt for Communism, maybe she'll deal now!)

Turn 10, 1160 AD
Back to "They'll never accept this deal" again
Gift Babylon to IA, they get Steam Power
Trade Nationalism for Steam Power
Cancel a 3gpt from Abe for Wool; redeal for 13 gpt

I'm going to stop here. France wont deal Communism for any 20 turn deal we have. I've set Research to 40%, which gives us 338 Gold in the treasury, -15 gpt and 13 turns to learn Communism. If Peanut or Mathilda can get a deal, great; otherwise, this is sustainable.

By gifting Babylon to IA, we got Steam Power. (And we have 3 coal sources.) Possible trades exist with Vikings, Abe and Carthage; I'd wait until a deal expires because there's not much cash available.

Only ones we're at war with right now is India. I've not moved any units, so the entire movement portion of 1160 AD is yet to be done, nor have I rushed any new cultural buildings.

Current culture is 47201, growing at 1040 per turn, as of the last turn.

End of Turnlog

The Great Library is popped. India is nearly done. Peace with everyone else. Communism is roughly 2/3 researched, but we're low on cash, so the last 1/3 will take a While (13 turns at 40% per the save). It would be great if someone else learned it; our cost would drop a lot! Not sure if we need anymore warfare at this point; maybe finish India off, and if the Southern Carthage island city flips to us, we have a shot at doing in Mongols and Japan. Probably best to just cruise to a conclusion; building as many cities as we can scrunch in and rushing as much culture as possible; revolting to Communism when the time comes to see what that does.

Over to you Peanut!

1160 AD Save

Got it. Well played CS. We seem to be in a good position - at 1040 cpt we are doing well in our (non-conquests) group. Might be a day or so before I can tackle it unless I am lucky and an opportunity appears.

From the sounds of it, it seems like we may have trashed our rep somehow. If they will "never accept this deal", it must mean that they won't take any amount fo gpt from us, other wise it would be "insulted by this deal". The reason France momentarily would go to insulted over gpt was the fact that you were renegotiating peace. For whatever reason the AI will ignore your trashed rep during peace deals. We must have screwed up a gpt deal at some point. Doesn't seem big at this point though, we will have Commy soon enough.

Good turns, btw

Thanks! Yes, there was mention about what we did to Japan, so we must have broken a deal with Tokunaga somewhere. Too bad, cause we could be Communistic now. (Although it is hard to keep track of what deals are in place, player to player.)

At just over 1000 cpt, we have a maximum of 53 turns to go. With rushing we've been able to add at least 100 culture per turn per 10 turn set; not sure what Communism will do to that growth rate, but we're on track to finish in 40-45 turns.

Peanut: I still have a bunch of Scientists (30 or so) working in cities building Colosseum or Cathedral; you may want to convert them back to the fields.

... or just convert them into "cultural" bricks and mortar ... sadly, sometimes you can get up to 3 "industrial accidents" when building a Cathedral.

Yup! I think the OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration for non-US) inspectors are getting a lot of non-reported income in our empire! In the words of Lord Farquad (our 4 year old loves to watch Shrek): "Yes, some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."

1160AD : Looks good, CS. We kick the scientists out of their labs and back to the fields to breed more citizens ... um ... er ... or something like that. Brennus Peanutticus, the terrible new despot, institutes a wave of oppression in his insane quest for more culture. Many citizens die in the building frenzy. Ghandi won't talk peace so we continue our advance.

IBT : The Americans capture Hyderabad and Calcutta. Ghandi brings Babylon into a trade embargo against us. Looks like we can build the Iron Works ... but where ? Ah ... at Cataractonium ! Whoopee !

1170AD : Boring. No Indians in reach, nobody wants to make any decent trades. Nothing to rush, either.

IBT : More boredom. An Indian galley appears off T Allegheny ... hmmm.

1180AD : Move a cav & knight towards the Indian galley. Dull otherwise.

IBT : The galley paddles further on.

1190AD : The welcoming committee awaits the galley. We march towards Punjab. No trades or rushes worth doing.

IBT : Yep. The Indians land an elephant. Laughable, really how poorly the AI manages its sea based invasions.

1200AD : Our cavalry collects some souvenir ivory. We start some rails around Edo and Entremont. India still won't talk, France won't trade. We sell wool & incense to Carthage for 12gpt (we're getting desperate). Somebody (not mentioning any names, Hammurabi) seems to have sold Steam power to Abe and now he is broke !

IBT : Boring.

1210AD : Joan still won't trade and Ghandi won't talk. We rush some buildings to just amuse ourselves and alienate the citizens. Punjab has one of those super-spears that redlines a cavalry and wounds a Knight before folding.

IBT : Joan and Abe call it quits. Maybe now she will trade Communism ? Nothing much else.

1220AD : Ghandi will talk peace at last. He offers Punjab (his only available city) for peace. OK -we would raze it otherwise. Joan still won't talk.

IBT : Oh dear how sad Abe has slaughtered Ghandi. Now we can trade with Babylon again as the embargo is dissolved.

1230AD : We sell Steam to Ragnar for 16gpt+30g. Not much but it staves off poverty, and someone else (eh joan ?) will probably sell it soon anyway as a few AI's know it already.

IBT : Japan wants to talk. They want an MPP and ROP ! The impertinence ! We laugh them out of the palace. WOW ! Calaris has flipped from Carthage to us ! The ice island with the remains of Japan and Mongolia on board ! Hahahahaha <insert maniacal laughter here>.

1240AD : A few rushes. No trades. No war. Just building.

IBT : Nothing interesting.

1250AD : Just more building. Oh yes - and Peanut strikes again - I accidentally clicked the "gift" line instead of the "make me an offer" line and now we have donated Abe 20 turns of coal. Ah well, at least he went from annoyed to polite. I had to do something dopey to keep my record up. Poop. Joan STILL won't trade. A few rushed buildings to finish off.

Summary and Gratuitous advice : Cash dried up a little and we are still 8-10 turns from Communism. There is a settler heading through old Mongolia looking for an empty spot, and two in a galley near TL Hakodate heading for former Indian territory where there is a bit of real estate available. We now have 193 cities, 1148 culture per turn and 57212 culture to date.

Over to you Madame Captain Mathilda ! The 1250AD Save

Thanks Peanut, excellent timing as my Easter holiday has just started

About my accidental "generosity" to Abe :
- he was broke and would not offer anything for coal for the last few turns.
- he went from polite to annoyed once we made peace with India (even though there was no alliance)
- we were in different governments so he naturally doesn't like us
- we now shared a common border (in former India)
- he has lots of cavalry from his french and indian wars
- we could do without being at war with Abe, particularly as he could easily bring in France and Babylon. Especially if we decide to overrun Carthage.
- we have some 40 turns to go to 100K culture and there is not a lot of point getting much bigger, as it takes a while to build up the population in order to rush buildings.

So, keeping Abe happy with coal is probably not such a bad idea.

There. Now I am happier. I must have had a good reason in my subconscious for doing it apart from having poor "mouse aim".

No worries, mate! If he simply wont trade us anything for it, a gift of coal to keep him off our back is fine. We've just about run out of conquests to do (maybe another round against Carthage), and quite frankly any warfare now is probably a distraction at best, and possibly damaging under a worst case situation. Let's keep Joan, Abe, Hammy and Ragnor at least content with us while we culturally cruise to the end!

I think the only trade that was up was with Ragnor - about 48 gpt about 1220 or so. That would put a crimp in our treasury. I made Scientists, but we could just as easily make taxmen, say 1 in about 50 cities or so, that might allow us to reach Communism a few turns earlier (haven't checked the save but that comes to mind.)

Good Luck, Mathilda! We're down to a maximum of 38 turns at this rate!

(edit: now I have looked at the save; we still have the 48 gpt coming in from the Vikings, and other residuals, which we probably want to keep coming; probably the upkeep from the new buildings has reduced our research rate, but what's one to do? Anyway, looks like Elizabeth will pony up her gold and about 10 gpt for Physics; not much else out there!)

Just been looking at the preturn and trying to max the research. I started wondering about selling our barracks at this stage, if we are not planning to do any more fighting. It would save us 23gpt as well as earning a small amount of cash. Any thoughts?

Sounds like a a solid plan to me.

Good thinking, Mathilda! Maybe keep one barracks in the Indian/Iroqouis area in case we need to upgrade our Knights to Cav.

BTW, Carthage has Nationalism, too, so if we did another round against Hannible, we'd be facing Riflemen.

Also, since that ice island city of Carthage has flipped to us, we can ship our Cav/Knight in the nearby continental city and finally take out Japan and the Mongols, if you wish to.

Sorry it took so long.
Everythhing didn't quite go to plan.



Checking for deals:
England will pay 48g + 10gpt + wm for physics - deal!
Carthage 18g + 5gpt + wm for steam power - ok.

Rushed Cathedrals 7
Colosseums 6
Libraries 2
Hired 23 scientists, communism due in 7

After Kaiser Bergers approval sell all the barracks saving 23 gpt.
Sorry Steve, I'd already done this when I saw yours, of course I should have done that.

Turn 1 - 1255AD
The Japanese have been destroyed did their settler commit suicide or what?

France got communism.

The one shield towns that have library, temple, cathedral and colosseum are set to wealth as I don't see how they could manage to ever finish a university before the game is over.

Rush a Cathedral, 2 Libraries and 3 Temples

Turn 2 - 1260AD

Mongols have been destroyed.

Los Angeles joins our glorious empire.
Communism now due in 4 turns, dropped one turn.
rush a colosseum and 2 cathedrals.

Sell coal to Carthaginians for 7 gpt

Turn 3 - 1265

More industrial accidents - our building sites are definately not safe.
1 cathedral and the newly joined Los Angeles gets a temple as a reward.

Sell spices to France for 10g + 5gpt

Turn 4 - 1270
Heroic Epic ready.
A couple of rushes.

We are six gold short of getting communism in one turn, raise some cash by selling maps.
Communism next turn.

Turn 5 - 1275
Ok, I changed in the big picture - so we are now in communism.
And we are in trouble. -201gpt with both sliders at zero.
Check through all the cities and there is not a single city that would be producing more than one shield.
I see no other alternative than change back to despotism.

In the meanwhile sell communism to everybody - Babylonia wants to pay 53g + 33gpt for it - fair enough.

Change all scientists to tax collectors and hired a heap more in other towns just to keep nose above water.

Change back to despotism.

Turn 6 - 1280AD
Back in despotism. Interestingly enough while we were in anarchy, we were making +280gpt, now +105.


Rush 1 colosseum and 7 cathedrals.

America now cautious.
Sell incence to Ragnar for 5gpt.


Turn 7 - 1285AD
Hannibal wants MPP and ROP, we politely decline and give them 10 gold to get a pint on the way out.

Only rushed one cathedral, when a missclick ended the turn in the middle of it all. Sorry.

Turn 8 - 1290AD

Hannibal wants to cancel deal where they were paying us 15gpt for horses. I ask him again nicely and he says, he can pay 14 gpt for them from now on. Something about a sick mother and lots of mouths to feed, even though I thought we'd been helping him reduce that problem.

Rushed 1 Temple, 8 cathedrals, 1 library

Turn 9 - 1295AD

Rushed 4 Colosseums, 13 Cathedrals


Turn 10 - 1300 AD

The Americans declare war on us
They capture Jönköping (was defended by a musket)

Babylonians are building uni sufferage

Sign France against America, we also give them dyes, but they pay us 18gpt for it.
Sign Scandinavia agianst America for saltpeter.
Babylon would jion for 340 cash upfront, but I'll let that for the next palyer to decide.
Move troops to meet the Americans.

Rush 2 colosseums, 2 cathedrals, 2 temples


End of Turnlog.

Summary:
Communism sucks - don't even think about trying it again.
America declared war.
Cpt 1365.

1300 save