Final Fixes Reborn

I encountered a bug, I think it is a bug anyway. for some reason all fonts are messed up, either overlapping, looking plain weird or having different fonts in middle of text. Civ IV or any expansion packs are not having same problem, only this mod.

Edit: I fixed it. I'm sorry for posting this before double checking instructions. As it worked with retail version I guessed it would work on Steam version...I was wrong.
But to be use of people who are dumb as me and didn't read whole instruction, if you use Steam you need to switch Beyond The Sword to beta so it works correctly.
Once again, sorry for making useless post without doing most important thing you should do:read instructions.

Marcus_Iscariat said:

Hi guys not sure if this is where I should post but I noticed some errors in my last game of Ashes while playing the standard version 14.11.

First the Unique Roc hero doesn't have the Flying promotion.

Second the Ring of Carcer didn't do anything when my Lvl 15 Dwarven Shadow entered.

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Fixed the Roc, got no issue with the Ring of Carcer though. are you able to replicate it ?

black_imperator said:

Fixed the Roc, got no issue with the Ring of Carcer though. are you able to replicate it ?

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Sorry already finished that game and stupidly auto deleted the saves as I didn't think about how it would have been helpful.
The only thing I can say is it was a Lvl 15 Dwarven Shadow with the Chosen of Esus Promo and I had revealed my identity so I didn't have Hidden Nationality at the time.

black_imperator said:

There are still updates in the svn, i've been fixing a few things the last three weeks.
I can review your suggestions if you want. Overcouncil and Undercouncil do need some overhaul, not sure what yet. I'll keep that idea in mind
.

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I originally suggested the Overcouncil/Undercouncil thing for RifE (might have also suggested it for Wild Mana back in the day, I don't remember now). As I said, I thought having the councils' support recur on a regular basis would help make council membership somewhat more meaningful.

Since you're open to suggestions, here's another one that I proposed for both RifE and Wild Mana. I know that Derf (in Derf's Ashes Modules) incorporated these changes into the "Khazad, the next generation" module, and I don't remember if I knew that when I made the suggestions or if the ideas came to me independently, but wanted to acknowledge that Derf's done this already.

Dwarven Druids and UB Grove Replacement

The Khazad and Luchuirp have as one of their unique units the Dwarven Druid, which requires Neutral alignment. Not all of the Khazad and Luchuirp leaders start out as Neutral, meaning that they have to make specific religious choices to become Neutral so that they can access one of their UUs. (Yes, with Broader Alignments, other things can affect alignment, but religion is the easiest.)

The simplest solution would be to remove the alignment restriction for Dwarven Druids. I initially wondered if it might be necessary to balance that by blocking the Khazad and Luchuirp from building Paladins and Eidolons, but I don't think it is.

Also, building a Dwarven Druid requires a Grove, which doesn't seem to quite fit units whose power relates to Earth magic (Crush, Earthquakes) as opposed to the Nature magic of the standard Druid. I therefore also suggested giving the Khazad and Luchuirp a replacement UB for the Grove, e.g., Stone Circle, Megalith, Dolmen, Cromlech. So that it wouldn't simply be the same building with a different name, it should have a different effect, maybe +2 with Arete. Derf's modification of the "Khazad, the next generation" module used the name Stone Circle and gave it +5% with Stone. I don't really have a preference, as long as it does something different from the Grove.

Nor'easter said:

Dwarven Druids and UB Grove Replacement

The Khazad and Luchuirp have as one of their unique units the Dwarven Druid, which requires Neutral alignment. Not all of the Khazad and Luchuirp leaders start out as Neutral, meaning that they have to make specific religious choices to become Neutral so that they can access one of their UUs. (Yes, with Broader Alignments, other things can affect alignment, but religion is the easiest.)

The simplest solution would be to remove the alignment restriction for Dwarven Druids. I initially wondered if it might be necessary to balance that by blocking the Khazad and Luchuirp from building Paladins and Eidolons, but I don't think it is.

Also, building a Dwarven Druid requires a Grove, which doesn't seem to quite fit units whose power relates to Earth magic (Crush, Earthquakes) as opposed to the Nature magic of the standard Druid. I therefore also suggested giving the Khazad and Luchuirp a replacement UB for the Grove, e.g., Stone Circle, Megalith, Dolmen, Cromlech. So that it wouldn't simply be the same building with a different name, it should have a different effect, maybe +2 with Arete. Derf's modification of the "Khazad, the next generation" module used the name Stone Circle and gave it +5% with Stone. I don't really have a preference, as long as it does something different from the Grove.

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Now Added in svn.

Small issue.

If I build a fort I get a free fort commander out of the deal. And when my enemies kill the fort commander they can capture the fort and get their own fort commander. And when I kill him and recapture it for my self I get a fort commander again. However if the enemy chooses NOT to capture the fort (such as when animals or barbarians do the deed) than the fort is still technically mine. And there seems to be no way for me to get a new commander to it.

Is this intended behavior? I am using the regular download version and not the SVN.


Also, it's fantastic to see FFH is not dead. You guys are the best.


EDIT: Also, I just remembered. It seems that when starting a custom game unrestricted leaders is enabled by default and I can't find a way to disable it. If I select a civ and let the AI pick a random leader I expect that leader to be from that civs selection. Instead I got Valkirion leading the Khazad.

PPQ_Purple said:

Small issue.

If I build a fort I get a free fort commander out of the deal. And when my enemies kill the fort commander they can capture the fort and get their own fort commander. And when I kill him and recapture it for my self I get a fort commander again. However if the enemy chooses NOT to capture the fort (such as when animals or barbarians do the deed) than the fort is still technically mine. And there seems to be no way for me to get a new commander to it.

Is this intended behavior? I am using the regular download version and not the SVN.


Also, it's fantastic to see FFH is not dead. You guys are the best.


EDIT: Also, I just remembered. It seems that when starting a custom game unrestricted leaders is enabled by default and I can't find a way to disable it. If I select a civ and let the AI pick a random leader I expect that leader to be from that civs selection. Instead I got Valkirion leading the Khazad.

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For the second point, what you can do to reset all options when starting AoE after playing another version of civ is to start a play now game. It resets everything and prevents hidden options from being activated.


For the first one, it's normal that currently you cannot gain back a commander. We are probably going to change that though. I have two possible ideas at the moment (either a spell that allows you to buy one back, if you have a unit on the fort or a timer similar to how lairs pop troups), not sure what we'll end up doing

black_imperator said:

Now Added in svn.

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Thanks! It just struck me as pair of simple changes that made sense.

Have you taken a detailed look at Derf's modules, by the way? I know your first priority now is bugfixes, but some interesting ideas there, might be worth considering at some point.

Thanks for the rapid reply. I can't believe I forgot to reset the setup. Speaking of the mod though. I've been thinking of going back to making that module I always wanted. And I have a question. What would be the best way to completely forbid my custom civ from using a resource? I have thought of some ideas, but none would really work.

I could forbid the tech they need to access it, forbid their workers from making the required improvements etc. But all of those can be circumvented relatively easily by random chance in the game. And none of them would prevent my civ from just trading to get it.

So, any advice? In particular, I want to disable my custom civ from using animal resources and sea food.

Nor'easter said:

Thanks! It just struck me as pair of simple changes that made sense.

Have you taken a detailed look at Derf's modules, by the way? I know your first priority now is bugfixes, but some interesting ideas there, might be worth considering at some point.

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Short term is indeed bug fixing and completing mechanics that were only half added (emergent leaders for example). On a longer term, there are a bunch of old design docs revamping most of the civs that i'm currently reviewing to see if there are things we could do in them. I'm taking a look at derf's modules with this in mind

Thanks for the rapid reply. I can't believe I forgot to reset the setup. Speaking of the mod though. I've been thinking of going back to making that module I always wanted. And I have a question. What would be the best way to completely forbid my custom civ from using a resource? I have thought of some ideas, but none would really work.

I could forbid the tech they need to access it, forbid their workers from making the required improvements etc. But all of those can be circumvented relatively easily by random chance in the game. And none of them would prevent my civ from just trading to get it.

So, any advice? In particular, I want to disable my custom civ from using animal resources and sea food.

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I'm not sure it's possible currently without using the DLL (in which you'd need to make a new tag for a civ, blocking access to a resource). The next best thing would be something akin to the DTesh Pyre.

Hm... that's problematic. The pyre still does not prevent the civ from just buying the resource. And DLL modding is out of my hands. Dam.

as i said, next best thing, which is probably enough to get started ^^

If we ever get to the long term plans (and if they don't change in the meantime), we might add something similar (buildings consuming a resource instead of just requiring it)

Additionally, if you remove all buiding gain from those resources, having them wouldn't matter too much

Noticed something in my latest game that seemed a bit odd. The world unit Jutapia doesn't have the Flying promotion, despite being a bird. If it's supposed to be a flightless bird, then the graphics should be changed, because it's confusing. Otherwise, I'd suggest giving it the Flying promotion, unless that would make it too hard to kill.

EDIT: I just took a look in the 'pedia and saw that Jutapia has a 75% withdrawal chance, so Flying would make it very hard to kill, as it could withdraw from combat onto a nearby mountain, which most units can't reach. If it does get the Flying promotion, then the withdrawal chance would probably have to be reduced to balance that out.

black_imperator said:

Additionally, if you remove all buiding gain from those resources, having them wouldn't matter too much

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You'd still get the default health benefit. And that wont really work for me. I basically envision a civ whose core mechanic is juggling mana. Fire mana makes your troops stronger whilst creation mana gives you health. And since regular health resources are restricted to just plants that forces you to juggle firepower vs production (large cities).

Would it be possible to maybe loop a python script that removes said resources from all my cities at the beginning of each turn? It won't work for the AI but at least it'd be player compatible. I'll write it my self no problem if it can be done. I just want to know if it would work at all.

Nor'easter said:

Noticed something in my latest game that seemed a bit odd. The world unit Jutapia doesn't have the Flying promotion, despite being a bird. If it's supposed to be a flightless bird, then the graphics should be changed, because it's confusing. Otherwise, I'd suggest giving it the Flying promotion, unless that would make it too hard to kill.

EDIT: I just took a look in the 'pedia and saw that Jutapia has a 75% withdrawal chance, so Flying would make it very hard to kill, as it could withdraw from combat onto a nearby mountain, which most units can't reach. If it does get the Flying promotion, then the withdrawal chance would probably have to be reduced to balance that out.

Click to expand...

already added to svn as of a few days, for now i left it unchanged, i'll reduce withdrawal if needed

You'd still get the default health benefit. And that wont really work for me. I basically envision a civ whose core mechanic is juggling mana. Fire mana makes your troops stronger whilst creation mana gives you health. And since regular health resources are restricted to just plants that forces you to juggle firepower vs production (large cities).

Would it be possible to maybe loop a python script that removes said resources from all my cities at the beginning of each turn? It won't work for the AI but at least it'd be player compatible. I'll write it my self no problem if it can be done. I just want to know if it would work at all.

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you could create a building that removes the resource (it actually already exists, contrary to what i said yesterday, just put a freebonus tag, and a negative value for it) and make a loop that pops this building as much as needed at turn beginning

black_imperator said:

you could create a building that removes the resource (it actually already exists, contrary to what i said yesterday, just put a freebonus tag, and a negative value for it) and make a loop that pops this building as much as needed at turn beginning

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Cool. I'll do that. Thanks.

Not sure if you're planning anything for the Doviello. I'm playing them in my current game and discovered that building their unique National Wonder Bioreserve requires a Lion Savanna, but they don't have any buildings that summon Lions. (They also don't have any buildings that summon Tigers, but if they adopt FoL their Priests of Leaves can summon Tigers.) In my current game I got a Lion through an Event and used it to build the first Lion Savanna so I could build it, but seems to me this isn't how it's supposed to work.

The 'pedia entry "Doviello+" in the "Fall from Heaven Concepts" section is inaccurate, also. I don't know if it describes how the Doviello worked originally but has been superseded by game changes (i.e., it's out of date), or if it describes how the Doviello are supposed to work but the design hasn't caught up to it yet. But it seems as if there were supposed to be some additional Doviello buildings that would summon animals. I suspect the entry is out of date, since it also mentions "Kindred Spirit" promotions rather than Animal Blood promotions.

In another post you mentioned some old design docs revamping most of the civs, so maybe the RifE team had something planned here.

Nor'easter said:

Not sure if you're planning anything for the Doviello. I'm playing them in my current game and discovered that building their unique National Wonder Bioreserve requires a Lion Savanna, but they don't have any buildings that summon Lions. (They also don't have any buildings that summon Tigers, but if they adopt FoL their Priests of Leaves can summon Tigers.) In my current game I got a Lion through an Event and used it to build the first Lion Savanna so I could build it, but seems to me this isn't how it's supposed to work.

The 'pedia entry "Doviello+" in the "Fall from Heaven Concepts" section is inaccurate, also. I don't know if it describes how the Doviello worked originally but has been superseded by game changes (i.e., it's out of date), or if it describes how the Doviello are supposed to work but the design hasn't caught up to it yet. But it seems as if there were supposed to be some additional Doviello buildings that would summon animals. I suspect the entry is out of date, since it also mentions "Kindred Spirit" promotions rather than Animal Blood promotions.

In another post you mentioned some old design docs revamping most of the civs, so maybe the RifE team had something planned here.

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the doviello+ entry is out of date (mostly kindred spirits replaced by animal blood), and we're indeed missing a building or two ^^, added to bug report

black_imperator said:

the doviello+ entry is out of date (mostly kindred spirits replaced by animal blood), and we're indeed missing a building or two ^^, added to bug report

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It might also make sense to move the info from the "Doviello+" entry into the main "Doviello" entry in the 'pedia under "Civilizations," or at least link to it from the main Doviello entry, since new players won't necessarily know to look under "FfH Concepts" for such information.