SGOTM 06 - One Short Straw

Welcome to your C_IV Warlords SGOTM 6 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

The Game

Gyathaar is playing this one close to his chest. Here's all the intelligence I've been able to wring out of him:

• Prince difficulty
• Epic speed
• You play as the Charismatic, Protective Churchill of the English Empire.
• You start with Fishing and Mining.
• Your unique unit is the Redcoat, replacing the Rifleman.
• Your Unique building is the Stock Exchange, replacing the Bank.
• The map is a highly modified Cylindrical Big And Small map, using the BtS map script. It is Standard, Temperate, Medium sea level.
• Always war. All VCs are enabled. I think the barbs are at default setting.

Here's the start - click the picture for one a bit bigger.


Versions
This game will be played in Warlords Version 2.13, on Windows only, with the DLLs as installed with BtS.

It will be played using the current version of the HoF Mod. This is version 2.13.002 for Windows. You will need to ensure that you can run the Asset Checker v2 before you attempt to load this game. Typlically, players who have upgraded to Beyond the Sword will have the right assets. Alternatively, you should be able to make your installation compliant by installing the new .DLLs released for WOTM 15. If you have a Steam installation then you will need to look at this post by ArcadicGamer for inspiration.

If later versions of Warlords or the HoF Mod are released they cannot be used for this game, and you will need to maintain a copy of your installed software at these versions to complete the game.

Timetable
The game will start on December 14th. I recommend you plan for a 4 month deadline for completion.

You will be able to download your start save from the SGOTM Progress and Results Page on December 14th, at midnight local server time.

Notes

• Please visit the Civ4 SGOTM reference thread to check out the rules and procedures to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game.
  
• Warlords v.2.13 is supported for this SGOTM. No other versions can be used, and you will have to stick with the same version throughout the game.
  
• Teams will compete for up to four awards - the Gold, Silver and Bronze Laurels for the fastest finishes, and the Wooden Spoons for the lowest scoring finisher. The number of awards may be reduced, depending on the number of teams who sign up.
  
• Awards will be given to teams who win in the least turns.
  
• All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

Enjoy your mystery tour of the World of Warlords.

Checking in.


Settling in place looks best. In the long run Conquest/Domination will probably be the quickest way to win this game.

Checking in,

I think 1SE is a better starting location. Its a plains hill and we can work the bananas for a bonus coin on turn 2. Research agriculture, build a worker, farm the bananas, and mine the gold. We are going to research IW pretty early so the jungle tiles won't have to wait too long. I'll try to look at timing more seriously later.

Checking in--welcome back Robert the Bruce.
I agree that this will be a conquest/dom game.
I'm not at all sure about the settling. I think at prince we don't need the capital to be on a hill for defense, esp with protective archers.
I like moving the warrior sw with an eye to settling on the dye for a bonus commerce.
If we're on the big continent, it may be possible to get dom w/o astro.
If we're on small, obviously not but then the AW doesn't hurt us much.
I think scouting much more a premium than a normal AW.

RobertTheBruce said:

Checking in,

I think 1SE is a better starting location. Its a plains hill and we can work the bananas for a bonus coin on turn 2.

Click to expand...

It looks like grass hill to me.
I'm also not sure about the build. I haven't played AW in a while but I think the AI will break culture if capital is not defended. Not sure about pillaging undefended improvements but we need to check on that. We may have to build a warrior first.

1 SE is definatly a grassland hill. We will be able to work the bananas if we settle in place on turn 15, so we would only gain +7 commerce if we settled on the hill. We would also lose 1 turn of production/growth, and if this caused us to delay working the gold mine for even one turn we would be worse of than settling in place. We should not need the defensive bonus for the capital.

The AI will break culture early in the game if it sees the capital undefended, but if our initial warrior only explores the area next to the capital we can use that for defence while we build a worker. I agree with researching agriculture first, then perhaps animal husbandry for horses/cows.

It maybe worth considering doing something with the Oracle if possible.

mdy said:

It maybe worth considering doing something with the Oracle if possible.

Click to expand...

I think we should plan on it.
Since we are playing prince and have gold, we can get something pretty useful. I would think either feudalism or CS should be possible.

Checking in.

I don't know about prince level and Oracle, is it even necessary to get Maces on this kind of level?

TDK

Depending on the map it may well be possible to win without maces (though they may speed things up). I was thinking of getting code of laws/construction/metal casting from the Oracle instead of CS.

mdy said:

Depending on the map it may well be possible to win without maces (though they may speed things up). I was thinking of getting code of laws/construction/metal casting from the Oracle instead of CS.

Click to expand...

Depending on the map we may need astro.
In a pangea map, the AI techs pretty well since they all trade with each other and we don't trade. I've only played AW a couple of times but it seemed like it was important to seize the initiative fast.
It might make sense to try and sling feud with the oracle--I think vassalage as a civic and the LB both very useful, esp with protective.
We'll have to see how the map plays out--big and small. I think there's a decent chance that we're put on the big, with not enough land for dom. So that would mean astro after major warring--a pretty interesting game IMHO.
If we're on the small, then the AW piece will have really pretty limited effect.

I'm thinking we should move the warrior SW--should we do that first and then discuss settling?

I`m fine with moving the warrior SW.

I created a test game that approximates our start (not precisely) and played a few turns and also tested another start.
The AI did not break culture to pillage improvements until around 2000 or so. If capital is vacated the AI will go for it so starting warrior can't go far. That supports the worker first build.

Valuable info there, Ungy.

Let's move the worker and discuss further.

TDK

OK-I moved the warrior:



In a normal game I would definately settle 1E. Just generally hate to settle 2 in from the coast. In this case seafood is much less desirable as we'll have to defend it. Anyone remember how the warlords AI works? In BTS that is a problem but I have a vague recollection that the warlords AI would not attack a defended resource unless it was a favorite to win the first battle.
Looking at the blue circles(which I don't necessarily have much faith in) would indicate something to the NW and nothing to the E. That would reinforce my feeling to claim the E gold with the capital. The banana tile to the W I don't think is significant in terms of wanting to settle in place.
I don't think we need to be on a hill at prince and I'd rather not lose a river hill.
I'd vote for 1E, get the warrior back in around 6 turns just in case the AI are close (which I don't think they are but why gamble).
Research ag-ah. Build worker first. Then I think we either go BW or archery. I think we should get a strong scout early on to get a good picture of the continent. That will shape many of our decisions.
We have a very strong production capital, I would think seriously about SH as that is great with charismatic.

If I have some time I'll run some simulations with the practice game on capital builds and techs. Since the capital will be almost all the prod+commerce early that'll help I think with tile work order/build order--I encourage anyone who has time to do the same.

In a normal game I would definately settle 1E. Just generally hate to settle 2 in from the coast. In this case seafood is much less desirable as we'll have to defend it. Anyone remember how the warlords AI works? In BTS that is a problem but I have a vague recollection that the warlords AI would not attack a defended resource unless it was a favorite to win the first battle.
Looking at the blue circles(which I don't necessarily have much faith in) would indicate something to the NW and nothing to the E. That would reinforce my feeling to claim the E gold with the capital. The banana tile to the W I don't think is significant in terms of wanting to settle in place.

Click to expand...

The blue circles do not take account of what is hidden in the fog of war. What disadvantage would there be in settling 2 from the coast? I can`t see any advantage in moving 1E which would lose us a turn and possibly a strategic resource. The AI in warlords will attack triemes defending fishing boats.

I agree with worker first and keeping the warrior close to the capital (unless it appears we are fairly isolated.) I also agree with agriculture-animal husbandry, but I think we will be better off building units instead of Stonehenge.

The goldmine is a bit better 1SE and the river banana can be worked from the start, but is it worth it to delay settling for a turn? Delaying a turn will cost us 9 gold(+food & production), but we would gain some from the better banana and more later from the better gold. 1SE would also grant better defense but cost us a forest.

I call it a tie and can support both solutions.

TDK

mdy said:

What disadvantage would there be in settling 2 from the coast?

Click to expand...

Well if you are 2 in from the coast it kills the possibility of settling another city to claim a seafood.
If the AI will attack a trireme defending seafood then we're probably better off skipping it and not building a navy so that would argue for settling in place.

mdy said:

The blue circles do not take account of what is hidden in the fog of war.

Click to expand...

Are you sure about this?
How could there be a blue circle if so SW of the warrior?

mdy said:

but I think we will be better off building units instead of Stonehenge.

Click to expand...

Very possibly, but I think we should keep our options open.
If we have a close neighbor, at prince we might be able to rush them when they are a mix of archers and warriors. If that is not going to be the case, then SH represents pretty good value for a charismatic civ.

What do you guys think of archery?
I'm inclined to go for it sooner rather than later.
I think it makes sense to go for it after AH and build a few, letting the capital grow.