7 New Civs You'd Like to See in Civ7

[pokiehl]

In 6 I've seen descriptions likely written by a mad man on crack. The simpler I can recall is "+ 1 science near Seowons" or even less specified, while in fact it was "+1 science to MINES near Seowon". It has never been corrected it seems ?

Huh? The text is “Mines receive +1 science if adjacent to a Seowon district.” Seems really clear to me and it and always worked as intended.

 

[Patine]

The new Millennia game says explicitly that its goal is to give you a blank slate to create your own Civ.
The problem with that, at least when I tried to play it, is that it gives you, as a result, no Leaders or any other named peoples, no Unique anything, and such generic attributes from the various Eras and constructions that it was so bland I couldn't stand it.

Maybe Civ spoiled me, but it made it impossible to identify with my faction and the game too boring to play. That doesn't mean the concept isn't viable, just that it's not easy to make it work.

Empire Earth did the same, mostly. You could bonuses to things production, gathering, and attack, move, armour, range, etc. of unit types, and such, by spending points on a menu, but yes, very bland.

You have your Civ name AND cities names as uniques, it's enough to identify yourself, no need of spreadout uniques like there is in Civ6 really, the more when you have to check them multiple times in some panel, and sometimes they don't seem to work or are so odd that it sounds like a joke.

This level of customization is already available in the base game of Civ2. It's not a new concept at that basic level. Boris is referring to a more in-depth customization.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Huh? The text is “Mines receive +1 science if adjacent to a Seowon district.” Seems really clear to me and it and always worked as intended.

It must have been corrected then.

This level of customization is already available in the base game of Civ2. It's not a new concept at that basic level. Boris is referring to a more in-depth customization.

Who can do more can do less, sure.

 

[Patine]

It must have been corrected then.

Who can do more can do less, sure.

Lao Tzu quotes are not the pillars of modern game design and marketing you know - even in China.

 

[pokiehl]

It must have been corrected then.

I don’t think there ever was an issue there. I think you’re misremembering.

The only thing I’ve found hard to understand at a quick read is Kilwa Kisiwani’s bonus, which is a wonder and not a civ so not really relevant to the conversation. But that was also because they haven’t established standard ways to refer to certain bonus types.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

I missed that, I'll take your word for it. In most other fanbase I know preorder bonuses are not generally met with hostility, so it's quite the bewildering reaction from where I stand.

(Of course the concept of a review bomb imply an angry *minority* overhwelming rating systems via systematic use, but I assume you simply mean there was an overwhelming number of negative review, not a concerted campaign to game the system).

In any event, I don't recall preorder bonus being my suggestion, simply one I was clarifying,

I believe the original idea was more in the nature of a Preorder/Ultimate Edition bonus that would *eventually* be available to everyone else as DLC.

A practice that, I understand, is generally more accepted.

Oh ok, sorry if I misunderstood.

 

[Naokaukodem]

I don’t think there ever was an issue there. I think you’re misremembering.

The only thing I’ve found hard to understand at a quick read is Kilwa Kisiwani’s bonus, which is a wonder and not a civ so not really relevant to the conversation. But that was also because they haven’t established standard ways to refer to certain bonus types.

I realize it's specific to the french translation. As to other descriptions, it's hard to see how to employ all those features in one goal, I mean the synergies it might or might not have. Just reading England uniques makes me forget about half of it (if not more) so for example when I reach industrial era if I've not forgotten the bonus related to electricity it's hard to check if it even works. Maybe it does, I just can't tell.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

This level of customization is already available in the base game of Civ2. It's not a new concept at that basic level. Boris is referring to a more in-depth customization.

I will freely admit that part of my frustration comes from the fact that the idea of a "Develop your own Civilization/Faction" by the way I play the game rather than with a set of pre-set Uniques is one I have lusted after for years - since well before Civ VI came out, in fact.

Having wrestled with Humankind's and Millennia's versions of in-game development of the faction/Civ, I've come to realize just how really difficult such a concept is to implement in a way that doesn't either result in a game that brings new meaning to Bland (Millenia) or throws such non-sequitur faction-types at you that you spend much of the game trying to remember who oe what you are playing.

I still think there's a way to do it. And, to look at the bright side, at least so far I know of two ways not to do it . . .

 

[GeneralZIft]

I am tired of all these weird Civ gimmicks from all these Civlikes. Please just give us some good unique bonuses that can be read by a normal human of normal reading comprehension within at most 2 minutes

I would like a Frankenstein system if nothing else, where I can just lego-brick together existing faction bonuses into a new faction for fun

 

[pokiehl]

I realize it's specific to the french translation.

Ahhhhh gotcha. Sorry, didn’t realize you meant that. You’re right, and with how text heavy the game is I’m sure there are a lot of opportunities for incorrect or imprecise translations. And to your point, the more complex an ability is, the harder it is to translate precisely.

I know we’re talking about civ abilities, but this reminds me of the egregious mistake in Kublai Khan’s intro text lauding his “marshall” skill rather than his martial skill…thankfully that was corrected.

 

[Patine]

I am tired of all these weird Civ gimmicks from all these Civlikes. Please just give us some good unique bonuses that can be read by a normal human of normal reading comprehension within at most 2 minutes

I would like a Frankenstein system if nothing else, where I can just lego-brick together existing faction bonuses into a new faction for fun

Well, perhaps one should seek out a simpler strategy game (like Art of Ancient Warfare for DOS or Utopia for the Intellivision, or some of the simple strategy game hackjobs for Android users) and not demand Civ must comform to such a standard because YOU want it to, despite that not being it's obvious marketing demographic.

 

[GeneralZIft]

Well, perhaps one should seek out a simpler strategy game (like Art of Ancient Warfare for DOS or Utopia for the Intellivision, or some of the simple strategy game hackjobs for Android users) and not demand Civ must comform to such a standard because YOU want it to, despite that not being it's obvious marketing demographic.

Not sure why yoou're trying to be rude.
If I recall, the designers for the game came out and said that they overdid it with Civ6 bonuses.
Overly complicated for no reason. I will be frank and fast with my explanation. Before Civ6 was simpler. Civ6 was complicated. This is not something you can disagree with.
My opinion is that before was better. Okay?
No need to "maybe you should play another game"

 

[pokiehl]

If I recall, the designers for the game came out and said that they overdid it with Civ6 bonuses.

Yes, the series lead himself said something to that effect. It’s funny because we do have some really elegant, simple designs, but we also have a ton of overly terrain specific ones which I think are the worst offenders. It’s frustrating to play civs that are too start dependent.

 

[GeneralZIft]

Yes, the series lead himself said something to that effect. It’s funny because we do have some really elegant, simple designs, but we also have a ton of overly terrain specific ones which I think are the worst offenders. It’s frustrating to play civs that are too start dependent.

Not all the Civ6 bonuses are overly complicated etc. etc.
There are some really simple ones yes. I think they started off simple at release, then they got a bit of feature creep over time.

There was a period of time where the leaders just had tons and tons of little bonuses which were all nods to very specific things.
Cool in theory, but reading it all in one long running paragraph is just too daunting.

I think for the very latest leaders, they've dialled it back, which is a good sign for the future

 

[Patine]

Not sure why yoou're trying to be rude.
If I recall, the designers for the game came out and said that they overdid it with Civ6 bonuses.
Overly complicated for no reason. I will be frank and fast with my explanation. Before Civ6 was simpler. Civ6 was complicated. This is not something you can disagree with.
My opinion is that before was better. Okay?
No need to "maybe you should play another game"

I admit, perhaps it was a bit harsh, and I apologize for the edge. But the point is, you seem to be the only one who wants to notably simplify Civ to such an extent, and are often, at times, a bit pushy about it, to be honest. The nature of the bonuses and the permutatiions of the game aren't for, "no reason." It isn't just most of the other regulars here who disagree with that - game marketing says otherwise, too. That is my core point that still stands.

 

[GeneralZIft]

I admit, perhaps it was a bit harsh, and I apologize for the edge. But the point is, you seem to be the only one who wants to notably simplify Civ to such an extent, and are often, at times, a bit pushy about it, to be honest. The nature of the bonuses and the permutatiions of the game aren't for, "no reason." It isn't just most of the other regulars here who disagree with that - game marketing says otherwise, too. That is my core point that still stands.

You are a funny guy, you say "most of the regulars disagree" when you're the only one who happens to vocalise it.

My other thread on Unique & Shared bonuses, there are some mentions of people enjoying the concise and to the point bonuses of the older games.

I'm not saying it because I am some neanderthal that cannot understand Civ6 bonuses. But complexity arises from interaction of game mechanics, not just listing 30 confusing bonuses in one paragraph.

And it's not just the number of bonuses but also the presentation. In that game it's genuinely horrendous.

Now just because Civ6 is popular doesn't mean that they did everything right. Same for any game. So my criticism isn't incorrect because, well, it sold well?

You mention the marketing but I have no idea what you're talking about. The designers have gone AWAY from complicated Civ bonuses in Recent years as opposed to TOWARDS.
This comes after a spell of them doing way too complicated bonuses.

It's not such a big deal that I should have to go on a rant but you seem so insistent in butting in and complaining about what I say.

Again, as Pokie pointed out, the series lead himself said the same thing about this very topic.

But since you want to attack me personally:
I do not care to simplify everything. Some things are just not neatly concise, when they provably can and should be.
I have suggested plenty of in-depth mechanics in the past; but at the end of the day, I like to think beginners need to be able to play this game.

And previous titles are way more approachable in this respect.

 

[Patine]

My other thread on Unique & Shared bonuses, there are some mentions of people enjoying the concise and to the point bonuses of the older games.

I don't believe this means that they also eschew more involved mechanics, as well. It's not a matter of one absolute or another.

And previous titles are way more approachable in this respect.

Civ6 being, by far, the best-selling iteration does say something, too. Although Civ2 is my personal favourite in the series, that is because it is, by far, the easiest to make comprehenisive custom scenarios and mods - I haven't played a vanilla Civ2 game for years.

 

[Patine]

You mention the marketing but I have no idea what you're talking about. The designers have gone AWAY from complicated Civ bonuses in Recent years as opposed to TOWARDS.
This comes after a spell of them doing way too complicated bonuses.

Civ6, in it's totality, is the most involved in permutations and intricacies of the series, even if they've shifted around in what ways.

But since you want to attack me personally:
I do not care to simplify everything. Some things are just not neatly concise, when they provably can and should be.
I have suggested plenty of in-depth mechanics in the past; but at the end of the day, I like to think beginners need to be able to play this game.

I admitted to having been too harsh and apologized, and rephrased my point diplomatically. The previous two accusations of, "personal attack," were not so, but criticisms of what I saw as flawed opinions, even if I presented it a bit overly sharply. The, "thesaurus," comment by you WAS a personal attack against me, even though you denied it after I pointed it out.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

I realize it's specific to the french translation. As to other descriptions, it's hard to see how to employ all those features in one goal, I mean the synergies it might or might not have. Just reading England uniques makes me forget about half of it (if not more) so for example when I reach industrial era if I've not forgotten the bonus related to electricity it's hard to check if it even works. Maybe it does, I just can't tell.

It's the same for me. When I play Civ5, I just take one look at the civ ability at the start of the game, then I know it for the rest of the game. With Civ6 I have to keep referring back to the both the civ and leader abilities

 

[AffineConstant]

It's the same for me. When I play Civ5, I just take one look at the civ ability at the start of the game, then I know it for the rest of the game. With Civ6 I have to keep referring back to the both the civ and leader abilities

It's so silly, and really what I'd love to see is more of the really simple unique ones. Maori with their mobile start, Venice with the "no colonies" option, etc. Something that really makes each civ play uniquely the whole game.