Britain is leaving the EU

[Arakhor]

We have no more voted to expel the EU institutions than to expel the 4 million other EU member state nationals here.

And we didn't vote to leave the ECJ, ECHR or common market either: we voted to leave the EU. Don't tell me now that such a situation is nebulous.

 

[Takhisis]

we didn't vote to leave the ECJ, ECHR or common market

I thought this was about dem Europeans takin' er fish stocks?

 

[Verbose]

Well, at least it seemed the UK voted AGAINST the EU...

 

[HAND]

Yanis Varoufakis speculating on the possibility of a trade deal:

'My Brexit advice to Theresa May is to avoid negotiating at all costs'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...dvice-theresa-may-avoid-negotiating/#comments

Unfortunately the majority of the article is behind a pay wall, but you get the gist.

There might not be a deal at all, so that would certainly explain the rationale for an election now.

I'm just thinking it's a pity that Greece didn't leave the Euro two years ago, they would have been well on the way to recovery by now with a floating devalued Drachma. Greece would have been the ultimate destination for tourists and Greek exports would have rocketed..

 

[Verbose]

Yanis Varoufakis speculating on the possibility of a trade deal:

'My Brexit advice to Theresa May is to avoid negotiating at all costs'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...dvice-theresa-may-avoid-negotiating/#comments

Unfortunately the majority of the article is behind a pay wall, but you get the gist.

There might not be a deal at all, so that would certainly explain the rationale for an election now.

I'm just thinking it's a pity that Greece didn't leave the Euro two years ago, they would have been well on the way to recovery by now with a floating devalued Drachma. Greece would have been the ultimate destination for tourists and Greek exports would have rocketed..

How do you know? The thing about counterfactal historical arguments is of course that anything can be claimed to be true.

The Greeks were presented with a choice of a scenario like that — and they passed on it as way too risky.

Because if it didn't work out as you just posited, the state might as well implode, the Nazis take over, and Greece end up in a civil war making it look more like Syria...

 

[uppi]

Unfortunately the majority of the article is behind a pay wall, but you get the gist.

No, from the brief introduction I don't. I could see the argument for "no deal is better than a bad deal" (although I would disagree), but I do not see what the point would be in not even trying to get a deal.

 

[Kyriakos]

Yanis Varoufakis speculating on the possibility of a trade deal:

'My Brexit advice to Theresa May is to avoid negotiating at all costs'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...dvice-theresa-may-avoid-negotiating/#comments

Unfortunately the majority of the article is behind a pay wall, but you get the gist.

There might not be a deal at all, so that would certainly explain the rationale for an election now.

I'm just thinking it's a pity that Greece didn't leave the Euro two years ago, they would have been well on the way to recovery by now with a floating devalued Drachma. Greece would have been the ultimate destination for tourists and Greek exports would have rocketed..

It is possible, or even probable - unless we got attacked by the usual suspects, to make an example of - not that unlike now, though.
That said, Britain is in a better position to show it can exist without this EU, which isn't helpful anyway - despite Britain not being its victim by and large, and not even at all when contrasted to Greece or some other countries. In the end it is always easier to let go of the ship once it has lopsided, instead of clutching some vague hope you won't drown if you stay in.

 

[Kyriakos]

How do you know? The thing about counterfactal historical arguments is of course that anything can be claimed to be true.

The Greeks were presented with a choice of a scenario like that — and they passed on it as way too risky.

Because if it didn't work out as you just posited, the state might as well implode, the Nazis take over, and Greece end up in a civil war making it look more like Syria...

Good to see you at least researched it, given we are talking about Varoufakis you may want to read on his position re what should have been done, tl dr it is the opposite of what you (for some im sure very specific and calculated reason, and not fearmongering, but what does a PHD economics professor at main universities know, right?) claimed.
Don't think what ended up being done is seen as positive at all. And you guess the result if there is a referendum on leaving the euro now.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Yanis Varoufakis speculating on the possibility of a trade deal:

'My Brexit advice to Theresa May is to avoid negotiating at all costs'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...dvice-theresa-may-avoid-negotiating/#comments

Unfortunately the majority of the article is behind a pay wall, but you get the gist.

There might not be a deal at all, so that would certainly explain the rationale for an election now.

The EU have firmed up their demands that the UK makes two major concessions at the outset; conceding residence
(colonisation settlement) rights to the EU nationals already in the UK and the UK commiting to paying them a substantial
exit (alimony or DaneGeld), before even discussing trade and other matters. And the EU view the latter in the context
of Norwegian and Swiss arrangements where they allow free movement and pay the EU a large amount each year.

If the UK rolls over and makes those concessions, the EU will understandably perceive themselves as in the
ascendancy (as they are with Greece) and therefore inevitably try to screw the UK over the trade and other matters.

In such circumstances, it may be better for the UK to simply prepare for tariff walls and declare independence.

 

[HAND]

No, from the brief introduction I don't. I could see the argument for "no deal is better than a bad deal" (although I would disagree), but I do not see what the point would be in not even trying to get a deal.

I've been looking round for another source but only found "The Express". Normally The Guardian and Independent like to cover this sort of story but they are strangely mute on Yanis's latest sentiments.

YANIS Varoufakis has urged Britain not to get caught up with EU negotiations in a stark warning to the Prime Minister.

Speaking to the Telegraph, the former finance minister of Greece said: “My advice to Theresa May is to avoid negotiation at all costs.
If she doesn’t do that she will fall into the trap of [Greek PM] Alexis Tsipras, and it will end in capitulation.”

Prof Varoufakis, who spent months battling the debt collection policies of the EU-IMF Troika during Greece’s financial crisis, believes Brussels will exploit political divisions within Britain to reduce the chance of getting a fair Brexit deal. After German chancellor Angela Merkel announced Britain should be more “constructive” when it comes to negotiating Brexit, Prof Varoufakis said this could be the beginning of an “EU runaround” for Theresa May.

He warned: “You won’t always know exactly who to talk to and that is deliberate. When you make a moderate proposal, they will react with blank stares and look at you as if you were reciting the Swedish National Anthem. It is their way of stonewalling. They will suddenly suspend talks claiming the need for more fact-checking."

“What they are trying to do is to reduce any benefit that Theresa May will get out of the election and downplay her democratic mandate.”

Prof Varoufakis believes the only way for Britain to avoid being forced to play the EU’s game, is to join the European Economic Area for a seven-year transition. This would safeguard trade and the City while also allowing the UK to withdraw from certain areas of the EU.
He concluded: “They could not refuse this. They wouldn’t have a leg to stand on.”

"Only once we collectively determine in the European Council that sufficient progress has been made on all these issues will we be in a position to hold preparatory talks on the future relationship with the UK.
"I would like us to unite around this key principle during the upcoming summit so that it is clear that progress on people, money and Ireland must come first."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/79...eu-avoid-negotiations-greece-finance-minister

 

[HAND]

How do you know? The thing about counterfactal historical arguments is of course that anything can be claimed to be true.

The Greeks were presented with a choice of a scenario like that — and they passed on it as way too risky.

Because if it didn't work out as you just posited, the state might as well implode, the Nazis take over, and Greece end up in a civil war making it look more like Syria...

The reason why Nazi-like parties like the Golden Dawn came to the fore in Greek politics is because Greece is stuck in the Euro and can't devalue when difficult times come about. The economic hardship caused by being in the Euro allows extremist parties to arise. It's common knowledge that Greece is not suited to be in the Eurozone, if Greece had a free floating currency it would begin to recover. Italy could join Greece too as the majority want the Lira back for the same reasons.

 

[HAND]

The EU have firmed up their demands that the UK makes two major concessions at the outset; conceding residence
(colonisation settlement) rights to the EU national already in the UK and the EU commiting to paying them a substantial
exit (alimony or DaneGeld), before even discussing trade and other matters. And the EU view the latter in the context
of Norwegian and Swiss arrangements where they allow free movement and pay the EU a large amount each year.

If the UK rolls over and makes those concessions, the EU will understandably perceive themselves as in the
ascendancy (as they are with Greece) and therefore inevitably try to screw the UK over the trade and other matters.

In such circumstances, it may be better for the UK to simply prepare for tariff walls and declare independence.

It does look like a hard Brexit without a deal is more likely now, but at this point it's all posturing and there will be concessions on both sides in time. It's pretty much a poker game and we are still in the Blinds and Antes stage at the moment.

 

[Kyriakos]

And let's not forget that despite austerity ruin and impossibly bad situation overall, the local far right party is nowhere near as powerful as the analogous ones in many other eu countries. Some of which even have far right as part of gov, or some very prominent far-ish right asthe gov anyway. In short, it is pretty out of touch with reality to speak of far right issues in Greece, kettle-potting it.

The EU have firmed up their demands that the UK makes two major concessions at the outset; conceding residence
(colonisation settlement) rights to the EU nationals already in the UK and the UK commiting to paying them a substantial
exit (alimony or DaneGeld), before even discussing trade and other matters. And the EU view the latter in the context
of Norwegian and Swiss arrangements where they allow free movement and pay the EU a large amount each year.

If the UK rolls over and makes those concessions, the EU will understandably perceive themselves as in the
ascendancy (as they are with Greece) and therefore inevitably try to screw the UK over the trade and other matters.

In such circumstances, it may be better for the UK to simply prepare for tariff walls and declare independence.

"Danegeld" was a somewhat nice touch, imo ^^ +1 for that term.

 

[Traitorfish]

Not deporting people who already live here is "colonisation"? Jesus Christ.

 

[Takhisis]

The EU have firmed up their demands that the UK makes two major concessions at the outset; conceding residence
(colonisation settlement) rights to the EU nationals already in the UK and the UK commiting to paying them a substantial
exit (alimony or DaneGeld), before even discussing trade and other matters.

One would think the European Army was massing at Dover, the Faeroes and Cork to execute a three-pronged invasion of the UK. Fight the Hun!

Not deporting people who already live here is "colonisation"? Jesus Christ.

Yeap. The UK hasn't colonised any place, even if there's hundreds of thousands of people in Spain, not counting Gibraltar.

 

[Arakhor]

Not deporting people who already live here is "colonisation"? Jesus Christ.

You can thank my new status for my not attempting to convey my deepest contempt for that entire thought process.

 

[Takhisis]

Hmmm. You would say that it's even sillier than adding both milk and lemon to the same cup of tea.

 

[uppi]

Prof Varoufakis believes the only way for Britain to avoid being forced to play the EU’s game, is to join the European Economic Area for a seven-year transition. This would safeguard trade and the City while also allowing the UK to withdraw from certain areas of the EU.
He concluded: “They could not refuse this. They wouldn’t have a leg to stand on.”

So he is suggesting that the UK exchanges its membership for a vassal status? I doubt that is going to be popular in the UK.

 

[Takhisis]

It's what the UK's just made Northern Ireland do.

 

[Kozmos]

I thought EEA was their go-to solution in the first place, so I'm not seeing what exactly is he recommending here that is new or beneficial for the UK.