[BtS] DIPLOMACY: a mod for Diplogames!

[The Capo]

If you want, I can head-up the LH project for the mod, since I have most of the materials anyway, as far as tables personalities. Granted, I dont have the personalities that CK did, just the ones I did/use.

What I think the best option would be right now, since by overhaul I meant graphics, diplotext, and final personalities, is wait until after this playtest and handle all of that at once. I know for a fact I need Sunni Ali Ber (becuase I'm adding him to Mali) and Menelik II (because I'm replacing Lalibela with him). I think there are a few I don't have, but I'm thinking I could use Lalibela as Solomon (well, provided I don't have a Solomon, sometimes I lose track) since they are relatively similar in at least the religious and building sense.

If/when you get the subforum, it will make alot of these sub-projects easier for everyone to keep track off.
The only problem I can forsee, is the causual poster might not go to the subforum.

Yeah, I'm hoping that happens soon. Actually it might be a good thing that I've been busy with RL stuff lately, because slowing down the project might mean that the subforum comes earlier in its development, which means the end will be a bit more organized. I sent a PM to a couple mods, one replied, and asked for more information, I did my best to sell it. I also pointed out TAdF's observation that this thread has the third highest posts in the forum, behind FfH and FfHII, and on top of that this thread is younger. So hopefully we can get our own sub-forum.

I'm currently getting through the rescaling/streamlining phase of the units. This is actually going slightly quicker than I thought, although I would really like to get some Greek/Carthage early modern (Machinegunner, Infantry, Anti-Tank) units in before then.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I know for a fact I need Sunni Ali Ber (becuase I'm adding him to Mali) and Menelik II (because I'm replacing Lalibela with him). I think there are a few I don't have, but I'm thinking I could use Lalibela as Solomon (well, provided I don't have a Solomon, sometimes I lose track) since they are relatively similar in at least the religious and building sense.

I can whip up Lalibela and Sunni Ali Ber if you need them...

Oh, and speaking of West Africa, this is slightly off topic, but I don't know if you've been following the Civ5 forums and news lately, but this should make you happy - Songhai's in Civ5! That's right, Askia Mohammed and his Songhai military-trading-military-goodness have replaced Mansa Musa's Malian tech whoring.

 

[The Almighty dF]

I can whip up Lalibela and Sunni Ali Ber if you need them...

Oh, and speaking of West Africa, this is slightly off topic, but I don't know if you've been following the Civ5 forums and news lately, but this should make you happy - Songhai's in Civ5! That's right, Askia Mohammed and his Songhai military-trading-military-goodness have replaced Mansa Musa's Malian tech whoring.

Source?
I keep hearing this stuff but nobody ever links to any source on it.
Edit: Found it. And thank god we get Ramses for Egypt.

Boo at Gandhi for India, though.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I can whip up Lalibela and Sunni Ali Ber if you need them...

Oh, and speaking of West Africa, this is slightly off topic, but I don't know if you've been following the Civ5 forums and news lately, but this should make you happy - Songhai's in Civ5! That's right, Askia Mohammed and his Songhai military-trading-military-goodness have replaced Mansa Musa's Malian tech whoring.

One more reason to add Songhai as an independent civ with Sunni Ali and Askia
2 LHs, Mansa Musa and Sundiata Keita for Mali is enough

 

[IgorS]

Source?
I keep hearing this stuff but nobody ever links to any source on it.
Edit: Found it. And thank god we get Ramses for Egypt.

Boo at Gandhi for India, though.

Actually, this is the list of confirmed Civ 5 Leaders and Civs:
Caesar and the Romans, Gandhi and the Indians, Montezuma and the Aztecs, Elizabeth I and the English, Genghis Khan and the Mongols, Bismarck and the Germans, Yekaterina and the Russians, Washington and the Americans, Oda Nobunaga and the Japanese, Wu and the Chinese, Askia and the Songhai, Bonaparte and the French, Ramesses and the Egyptians, Suleiman the Magnificent and the Turks, Harun-a-Rashid and the Arabs, the Incas will also be in the game, but the leader wasn't announced yet.

END OF

 

[The Almighty dF]

Actually, this is the list of confirmed Civ 5 Leaders and Civs:
Caesar and the Romans, Gandhi and the Indians, Montezuma and the Aztecs, Elizabeth I and the English, Genghis Khan and the Mongols, Bismarck and the Germans, Yekaterina and the Russians, Washington and the Americans, Oda Nobunaga and the Japanese, Wu and the Chinese, Askia and the Songhai, Bonaparte and the French, Ramesses and the Egyptians, Suleiman the Magnificent and the Turks, Harun-a-Rashid and the Arabs, the Incas will also be in the game, but the leader wasn't announced yet.

END OF

Wu hasn't been confirmed yet. Here's still hoping she's just a rumor and we'll get a more deserving leader.
Wikipedia's got a list of the confirmed civs/leaders with sources (well, IGN. Only IGN has reported on them, I guess.)

 

[Vrenir]

More on-topic, I downloaded your last mod build from the link to see what it's shaping up like and was pretty impressed. The art choices in leaders and units especially are an impressive collection, and I know you aren't done with them yet. I did want to draw your attention to the Franco leaderhead though. First off, it is easily the best representation yet (an amalgamation of at least two fine past attempts). I strongly suggest that you release it, once you correct two small errors. One, his lighting changes depending upon who I have previously selected. I have no idea what is causing that, but it appears unique to him, so hopefully it can be easily remedied. Two, it appears that some of his hairline (specifically the top left side) has some jagged paint seams. It's not easily noticed, but it slightly mars the overall appearance. The modifications to Napoleon's clothing, the changes to the head, and the addition of the sash are perfect though. Again, please do release this one, and great work overall! I can't wait to see this in final form.

 

[The Capo]

No more Civ5 talk! Although if they only have one leader per civ I'm going to be one sad panda! I mean, damn it man, what are they thinking? I don't understand their thought process on this, it is clear what the civ players want, they should just give it to them... damn it...

Back to my mod.

More on-topic, I downloaded your last mod build from the link to see what it's shaping up like and was pretty impressed. The art choices in leaders and units especially are an impressive collection, and I know you aren't done with them yet. I did want to draw your attention to the Franco leaderhead though. First off, it is easily the best representation yet (an amalgamation of at least two fine past attempts). I strongly suggest that you release it, once you correct two small errors. One, his lighting changes depending upon who I have previously selected. I have no idea what is causing that, but it appears unique to him, so hopefully it can be easily remedied. Two, it appears that some of his hairline (specifically the top left side) has some jagged paint seams. It's not easily noticed, but it slightly mars the overall appearance. The modifications to Napoleon's clothing, the changes to the head, and the addition of the sash are perfect though. Again, please do release this one, and great work overall! I can't wait to see this in final form.

Thanks a lot Vrenir, I also have no idea why Franco does that. I'll try to get to the bottom of it for the next playtest (i.e. after this one) when I start working on the LHs again. As for the unit, basically I took the two available Francos, kinda merged them, then I did some editing on it. So yeah, he looks pretty sweet (I gave him a new sash and created a medal for him based on one he actually wore). I know some mods out there try to emulate an expansion pack, which is sort of what I'm doing here, but I like to think of it more like "This is what Capo wants in CivIV," I have pretty high standards when it comes to some things and obviously leaderheads is one area that I am a stickler for, graphics in general being the other. So this mod, in the end will not have as many changes as mods like LoR or TR or RoM (or any other acronym I forgot), but it will be a very nice looking mod, with some cool new features and plenty of modules (over thirty are either complete or nearly complete already) that I will release over time, not to mention some awesome new AI personalities (basically there are no repeated personalities) so while some traits combos will repeat, the replay value will be high. On the negative side, as with any big mod, it is NOT recommended to play this mod with the full compliment of civs. I'm trying my best to maintain performance, but I'd suggest a Large map at the biggest.

Anyway, back to unit-editing.

 

[mechaerik]

Well, I guess Capo is a

 

[The Capo]

Well, HOPEFULLY this is somehow moddable, but I don't know. It is a little disheartening, especially for an LH-maker.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Well, HOPEFULLY this is somehow moddable, but I don't know. It is a little disheartening, especially for an LH-maker.

I have faith that it will be.
Surely Firaxis wouldn't shoot itself in the foot.

 

[The Capo]

Surely Firaxis wouldn't shoot itself in the foot.

I wouldn't go as far as "surely" on that one.

Anyway, if anybody really wants to help I have a short list of things that I could use. I could probably find this myself, but if you guys helped me it would save me time, plus it gives you a chance to make a suggestion here. Please only suggest high quality units, if it is of questionable quality I won't use it. Anyway, here are some things that would be helpful/save me some time:

• Turkish Jet Fighter
• American Mechanized Infantry
• Arab Mechanized Infantry (and/or generic Desert Mech I could use for Babylon and Sumeria as well)
• Egyptian Mechanized Infantry (could be the same as Arab)
• American Aircraft Carrier

Of course I would also welcome art for any other civ or unit, but these I definitely do not have so they would be most helpful.

 

[IgorS]

Well, HOPEFULLY this is somehow moddable, but I don't know. It is a little disheartening, especially for an LH-maker.

Lets just hope Firaxis made only one LH per civ, but there is an option to add more LHs.

 

[Vortilex]

Well, remember, what we know is that there is only one leaderhead per civ thus far. I believe that we are looking at the game through a thick grate, and once that's lifted, only then can we make a serious judgement. (No religions or espionage sucks though).


Anyway, I might be able to give you some art for the units you need, but I'll need a saturday, my old drawing pad so that I don't have the common errors I make when drawing with a mouse, and a diet Coke No promises though, as y'all've seen what happens when I've tried to sit down and make something (anyone noticed how long my sig's been around?)

 

[Ignatius777]

Lets just hope Firaxis made only one LH per civ, but there is an option to add more LHs.

Warning, this reply is OFF TOPIC

I heard somewhere that this new installment of Civilization is supposed to be the most mod-able ever, so no worries there then, mate!

 

[The Capo]

Some people have PMed me about the modern units. I just wanted to say that I have made them all scaled correctly (so they match the vanilla units) and many have been updated. For instance the Americans now use the SR-71 Blackbird as their stealth bomber, and have the Apache Longbow as their gunship. I also gave the Iroquois and Sioux some different American (and in one case Canadian) air units to add to the flavor.

EDIT: As usual, if you come across any unit you think should be included or you think is better than one I have used please let me know and I'll take a look at it. I could have easily missed something awesome, so don't hesitate.

 

[The Capo]

Something I just remembered that I wanted to run by everybody. What do you all think of allowing the Marine unit to be upgraded into various specialized units? I was thinking of adding five new unit types that the Marine could be upgraded into for a cost (they'd be national units and be unbuildable otherwise). The units I had in mind, with a general description would be:

• Medic: Pretty obvious what this one would do, heal units in a stack. Can't attack, or defend (i.e. it is destroyed if attacked).
• Counter Insurgency: Would be placed in a city to put a stop to rebellion/disorder after conquest. Can only defend.
• Special Ops: Could conduct a select amount of espionage missions, would also be invisible and could enter enemy territory. Can see invisible units. I was also considering making it have a hidden nationality.
• "Alpine": I could use a better name for this. A unit that would have special defense and attack bonuses on certain terrains, would also be able to cross mountain ranges.
• Combat Engineer: Can scrub nuclear fallout, build roads (only roads), and forts. Can't attack, or has a substantial loss of strength. I was also thinking of giving it an "agent orange" action that would take out jungles, but that might be unnecessary by the time it is around.

Each would require a specific technology and in some cases may require a specific building. I think it would be a pretty cool/dynamic way of allowing a civ to create a specialized military. I'm not entirely sure exactly how it would be implemented at this point, but I figured it might be a cool and unique feature of this mod. Any feedback on this idea would be appreciated, if I were to do it it would obviously not be in the next playtest and would have to be discussed.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Something I just remembered that I wanted to run by everybody. What do you all think of allowing the Marine unit to be upgraded into various specialized units? I was thinking of adding five new unit types that the Marine could be upgraded into for a cost (they'd be national units and be unbuildable otherwise). The units I had in mind, with a general description would be:

• Medic: Pretty obvious what this one would do, heal units in a stack. Can't attack, or defend (i.e. it is destroyed if attacked).
• Counter Insurgency: Would be placed in a city to put a stop to rebellion/disorder after conquest. Can only defend.
• Special Ops: Could conduct a select amount of espionage missions, would also be invisible and could enter enemy territory. Can see invisible units. I was also considering making it have a hidden nationality.
• "Alpine": I could use a better name for this. A unit that would have special defense and attack bonuses on certain terrains, would also be able to cross mountain ranges.
• Combat Engineer: Can scrub nuclear fallout, build roads (only roads), and forts. Can't attack, or has a substantial loss of strength. I was also thinking of giving it an "agent orange" action that would take out jungles, but that might be unnecessary by the time it is around.

Each would require a specific technology and in some cases may require a specific building. I think it would be a pretty cool/dynamic way of allowing a civ to create a specialized military. I'm not entirely sure exactly how it would be implemented at this point, but I figured it might be a cool and unique feature of this mod. Any feedback on this idea would be appreciated, if I were to do it it would obviously not be in the next playtest and would have to be discussed.

Medic seems pointless, since that's a promotion line (and we should keep it as such, in my opinion.)
Combat engineer... no real point to me. Why not just use workers? By late game, you don't need to do that much.
Same goes for the espionage thing, why not just build spies?

Just seems kinda superfluous to me.

 

[The Capo]

Medic seems pointless, since that's a promotion line (and we should keep it as such, in my opinion.)
Combat engineer... no real point to me. Why not just use workers? By late game, you don't need to do that much.
Same goes for the espionage thing, why not just build spies?

Just seems kinda superfluous to me.

Well, I suppose the medic thing is correct. The only thing I'd say about the Combat engineer is that you could effectively build a fortress in enemy territory during a war (although again, it takes forever so you are probably right about that). As far as the Special Ops thing, that's the one I think you are wrong about. For one it can't "get caught" except by other special ops units and they would have to fight (although can they?) You can also use the special ops units to paradrop (they can paradrop) and take out strategic resources. It can also see spies/invisible units. So I think out of all of them that one is probably the best. The point isn't that they can conduct espionage missions (I was only going to give them like maybe two), the point is that they are invisible. And there would only be three of them possible at any time. For the medic though (I should make them defend then) the point would be that they will be promoted to heal to the nines, and this way you could focus your promos for your combat units on other things.

EDIT: Also while I'm at it, if anyone around here has any idea what I should use for modern units for Carthage, Greece (I only need early modern, so AT Infantry, Machinegunner, and Infantry for these two), and the Celts (this I need the whole gamut, the three mentioned before and then Marine, SAM Infantry, and Paratrooper) that would be extremely helpful. I am at a complete loss here. I suppose for the later modern Celts I could go with Irish units. I could potentially go Irish for the other ones too but since I have an Irish module I don't know if that's such a great idea. Or I could be lazy and just use British or something? I have no idea!

 

[The Capo]

I just wanted to point out that I think I have found some potential new ships. One I will, most likely, use as Polynesia's Trireme (and may make a good model for a new UU actually, if we go in that direction). The other, I kinda don't know what to use it for but it looks awesome. I realize the "Polynesian" ship may not be accurate at all, but who cares? It looks awesome.

I did have an idea though, and maybe if anyone around here knows if this is possible that would be cool. Going back to Xyth's suggestion that the Polynesian UU be a ship. Is there any way, using python, to make it so that I could give Polynesia a naval UU that works like the old Civ Trireme worked? In that it can cross ocean tiles, but if it ends it's turn on an ocean (and I might give it three movement points just to entice you) it either sinks, or has a high chance of sinking (like 75%). Anyway here are the new ships.