<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
Errrr... No?
I'm very tired right now, so maybe just that but I don't get what you mean.
Chronicles of Mankind
- Thread starter <Nexus>
- Start date
I'm very tired right now, so maybe just that but I don't get what you mean.
Drakarska
Epic Dadness
RevDcm tab, and A New Dawn tab respectively. There's options there to adjust the AI thresh holds on the DCM tab, and some more options on the AND tab. Granted, I like playing Barbarian world, but it's my experience that adjusting options from base settings also affects AI civs.
As a side thought <Nexus>, have you ever talked to Walter over in the RI forums? His modcomp "AI plays to win" is pretty impressive. I've had some rather bloody games with that option ticked when playing that mod.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
I'm not sure if it could be mergetat all and even if it's possible, it may be beyond my skills but I'll have to take a look at it. Thx!
Mr Smith
Warlord
If it's not just a smart weight arrangement, it's likely coded in DLL, which Nexus doesn't work on.
Drakarska
Epic Dadness
Fair enough. If I had the time, I'd take a look at and see what's what 
.
Unfortunately, I haven't had enough time to mod in years (gotta love how work is always a priority
).
That said, messing around with those 2 tab options has led to some rather interesting games. Always interesting when the AI ( and barbs for that matter) conduct surprising amphib ops, and then have barbs do it as well while your at war with another civ. Last game, I was playing as Japan and got DOW'd by 3 different civs. A barb city to my south thought that was a great time to dump a bunch of grenaiders right next to my merchant city.... yeah, that was fun.
I'm still trying to figure out a good set of parameters for those 2 tabs, but experimenting has been rather fun.
.Unfortunately, I haven't had enough time to mod in years (gotta love how work is always a priority
).That said, messing around with those 2 tab options has led to some rather interesting games. Always interesting when the AI ( and barbs for that matter) conduct surprising amphib ops, and then have barbs do it as well while your at war with another civ. Last game, I was playing as Japan and got DOW'd by 3 different civs. A barb city to my south thought that was a great time to dump a bunch of grenaiders right next to my merchant city.... yeah, that was fun.
I'm still trying to figure out a good set of parameters for those 2 tabs, but experimenting has been rather fun.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
I wouldn't mind you sharing your experiences with us. I guess most of us don't experiment too much but stick to our favorite nd best known options.
Drakarska
Epic Dadness
Sure thing. My next day off I'll see what the settings are on the current game.
Drakarska
Epic Dadness
OK, here's a quick settings screen grab of the tests I've been using. Side note, weathers playing havoc with my Inet.
The reason I chose BW is it allows me to tweak Rev Index settings. Additionally, for some reason I haven't figured out yet ( Still experimenting), it makes the AI's extra spicy. My best guess so far, is that the REVDCM modifiers adjust AI behavior based on their Leader personality. I haven't had time to check the AI's code to verify, and my guess could be totally wrong, lol. On to the next screenie.
The reason I chose BW is it allows me to tweak Rev Index settings. Additionally, for some reason I haven't figured out yet ( Still experimenting), it makes the AI's extra spicy. My best guess so far, is that the REVDCM modifiers adjust AI behavior based on their Leader personality. I haven't had time to check the AI's code to verify, and my guess could be totally wrong, lol. On to the next screenie.
Drakarska
Epic Dadness
Ok, Rev tab settings.
On the Barb civ options, I've tweaked the parameters a bit. Basically, I've increased the settings by about 50% ( ish, lol), gave them same era techs ( yeah, running into barb rifles was fun.. Not), and generally made them more pissy by checking the fierce natives box ( I'm really sad that they don't like me).
Additionally, the Standard size map filled up fast, as 22 civs popped up by the time I hit the Ren Era. Fortunately for Yours Truly, 10 of those Civs got ghosted by... Environmental factors. Yeah, that was it, environmental factors.
Huh, I don't have the next screen gran of the Index section below the Rev section. Oh well. I just adjusted the Index sections about 40 to 50% increase. Just play around with the settings until you figure out what's comfortable for you. The neat thing is, with BUG, you can do it in game and see what happens within roughly (depending on game speed) 20-30 game turns.
Current game, roughly all AI's are in the MOD Era, and there's lots of border skirmishes happening. I've fought off a tank rush from Rome, and a couple of amphib ops from his allies. My retaliation took out 3 of his cities before he sued for peace. As I'm trying for a Diplo Vic on this game, I'm trying to avoid going offensive as much as possible. Spys are helping out huge in this tactic, especially since I control the UN. Oh, that reminds me; @ <Nexus> Have you ever thought about incorporating the modcomp SuperSpys? The main feature of that Modcomp was that spy's return to closest city instead of the Cap. That would save a huge headache of transporting spy's all over the map.
Anyways, lol, if anyone has questions, feel free to ask. I'm still experimenting.
On the Barb civ options, I've tweaked the parameters a bit. Basically, I've increased the settings by about 50% ( ish, lol), gave them same era techs ( yeah, running into barb rifles was fun.. Not), and generally made them more pissy by checking the fierce natives box ( I'm really sad that they don't like me).
Additionally, the Standard size map filled up fast, as 22 civs popped up by the time I hit the Ren Era. Fortunately for Yours Truly, 10 of those Civs got ghosted by... Environmental factors. Yeah, that was it, environmental factors.
Huh, I don't have the next screen gran of the Index section below the Rev section. Oh well. I just adjusted the Index sections about 40 to 50% increase. Just play around with the settings until you figure out what's comfortable for you. The neat thing is, with BUG, you can do it in game and see what happens within roughly (depending on game speed) 20-30 game turns.
Current game, roughly all AI's are in the MOD Era, and there's lots of border skirmishes happening. I've fought off a tank rush from Rome, and a couple of amphib ops from his allies. My retaliation took out 3 of his cities before he sued for peace. As I'm trying for a Diplo Vic on this game, I'm trying to avoid going offensive as much as possible. Spys are helping out huge in this tactic, especially since I control the UN. Oh, that reminds me; @ <Nexus> Have you ever thought about incorporating the modcomp SuperSpys? The main feature of that Modcomp was that spy's return to closest city instead of the Cap. That would save a huge headache of transporting spy's all over the map.
Anyways, lol, if anyone has questions, feel free to ask. I'm still experimenting.
ToastedHCL
Always modded, never vanilla
This mod seems insanely epic and criminally underrated in my limited experience with it so far (I'm at around 2900 BC in my first real game with it). It took me no fewer than 5 tries to get into it over a couple months (in between trying other mods), but the 5th time was the charm and I'm really glad I stuck with it. I think a big part of the reason it was hard for me to get into is the fact that I have some chronic health issues (which is just a personal thing obviously and isn't anything specific to this mod.) These issues were making adapting to the very different game approach (e.x. figuring out that buildings are a key part of food production instead of only terrain, developing a good strategy for gathering, etc.) difficult for a while. Fortunately, I got over the initial confusing/overwhelming hump (that you need to get over with any new 4X experience) somewhat. So let me start off by saying thank you so much for your hard work on this fantastic mod Nexus!
The other part of why I had a hard time getting into it was the very slow pacing and limited city growth of the early game (I guess it's mainly the ancient era in particular). To combat that, I'm working on a (very) quick and dirty mini-modmod to speed the early game somewhat and allow for more breadth of choices, in a manner somewhat akin to that of base BTS. Idk if it could even be called a mini-modmod as it's going to be like 10 very basic changes or so, but if case anyone else is interested in it, I might still share that on the CoM forum at some point (due to my health issues it may take a while). In the mean time though I have a few things I want to mention/ask about.
1. What causes the "we're too far away from our capital" unhappiness malus? I settled a second city about 3 or 4 tiles away from my capital and found that it couldn't even work one tile at first due to the massive unhappiness hit. I would like to remove that penalty for my mini-modmod as I feel that it's overly restrictive.
2. I think the belligerence civic isn't giving me the free units properly. It says that it will provide 10 free units but my unit costs haven't changed at all since I switched to it. I'm attaching a save in case that's helpful (you may notice that my capital is pretty big for 2900 BC, that's due to me removing the majority of the civic growth penalties in my mini-modmod).
3. Would it be possible to get things like production to round to the closest integer instead of rounding down only? As it is now, even a 5% production reduction from an early civic turns into a 50% production reduction because 1.9 hammers in a new city get rounded down to 1 (see the screenshot I'm attaching.) That again slows down the early game too much imo. I realize that that could be complicated to implement, but I just though I'd ask.
Drak - that is definitely interesting, thanks so much for sharing all of that. I may come back and ask you about that once I've got my questions and some other things figured out.
The other part of why I had a hard time getting into it was the very slow pacing and limited city growth of the early game (I guess it's mainly the ancient era in particular). To combat that, I'm working on a (very) quick and dirty mini-modmod to speed the early game somewhat and allow for more breadth of choices, in a manner somewhat akin to that of base BTS. Idk if it could even be called a mini-modmod as it's going to be like 10 very basic changes or so, but if case anyone else is interested in it, I might still share that on the CoM forum at some point (due to my health issues it may take a while). In the mean time though I have a few things I want to mention/ask about.
1. What causes the "we're too far away from our capital" unhappiness malus? I settled a second city about 3 or 4 tiles away from my capital and found that it couldn't even work one tile at first due to the massive unhappiness hit. I would like to remove that penalty for my mini-modmod as I feel that it's overly restrictive.
2. I think the belligerence civic isn't giving me the free units properly. It says that it will provide 10 free units but my unit costs haven't changed at all since I switched to it. I'm attaching a save in case that's helpful (you may notice that my capital is pretty big for 2900 BC, that's due to me removing the majority of the civic growth penalties in my mini-modmod).
3. Would it be possible to get things like production to round to the closest integer instead of rounding down only? As it is now, even a 5% production reduction from an early civic turns into a 50% production reduction because 1.9 hammers in a new city get rounded down to 1 (see the screenshot I'm attaching.) That again slows down the early game too much imo. I realize that that could be complicated to implement, but I just though I'd ask.
Drak - that is definitely interesting, thanks so much for sharing all of that. I may come back and ask you about that once I've got my questions and some other things figured out.
Drakarska
Epic Dadness
@ ToastedHCL: Sorry to hear about your health issues. I've noticed as I have gotten older, my health isn't particularly stellar either.
With that said, let's see if I can't hopefully answer some of your questions.
It would help if you toss up a SS of your settings. Simply click on the fist in the top left part of your in-game screen. Hit the settings tab, then SS it.
Ok, so to be clear, I'm not judging on removing the growth penalties. Everyone likes to play however they wish. But by removing the penalties, your basically giving yourself no handicaps, but the AI still has them. You could always do an advanced start if you wanted to play in a later era. Starting in an AE and then simply removing the penalties associated with your brand new empire seems kind of hollow to me, as it doesn't really teach you anything about the game mechanics and how to offset the penalties. Just an observation bud, not meant as criticism.
So, it may help your gaming enjoyment if you read some threads over in the S&T forums. There's quite a bit of knowledge over there to help answer some of your questions ( in addition to asking here
). Oh, when I get a moment, I'll toss up a SS of an Engineering Specialist city currently in the modern era. Enduring all the negatives and malus's from starting in the AE is definitely worth it. Hope this helps,
Drak.
With that said, let's see if I can't hopefully answer some of your questions.
It would help if you toss up a SS of your settings. Simply click on the fist in the top left part of your in-game screen. Hit the settings tab, then SS it.
This to me sounds like your settings, specifically game speed. Build/constuction times will vary according to game speed as well. Additionally, early game is supposed to be slow by design, as this gives you time to explore the map, and start building up an economy. Civics play into this as well, and the good stuff doesn't happen until later eras.
Hmnn. What do you have 4 tiles north of Pasargarde? Is that an AI Civ? If it is, then that's part of your problem, as another AI's culture will overwhelm your new city. Additionally, you can offset this malus by connecting your 2 cities with a road, as well as building a culture building or two. 4 tiles away is a good rule of thumb for vanilla BtS, but for this particular mod ( depending on settings) I'd recommend 5 tile separation. If you've chosen the feature expanded cities, then you'll want 5-6 tile separation, as you can work 3 rings in later eras.
The belligerence civic I never use, as I prioritize growth over combat. I'll usually just bee-line archery, and then focus on growth and science. Once I gain the appropriate techs, I'll switch to pacifist for the sci boost and turtle until the relevant tech comes along for me to switch several civics at once using a Golden Age.
Ok, so to be clear, I'm not judging on removing the growth penalties. Everyone likes to play however they wish. But by removing the penalties, your basically giving yourself no handicaps, but the AI still has them. You could always do an advanced start if you wanted to play in a later era. Starting in an AE and then simply removing the penalties associated with your brand new empire seems kind of hollow to me, as it doesn't really teach you anything about the game mechanics and how to offset the penalties. Just an observation bud, not meant as criticism.
Your integers will adjust as you build more buildings associated with hammers. Looking again at your SS, it appears that you've only just started this game, or just a few turns into it... Yup, 2980 BC, so your not to far along into the game. Again, lol, your in the Ancient Era, so things are slow by design. Things are not going to go fast unless you've chosen quick speed or faster on game speed.
So, it may help your gaming enjoyment if you read some threads over in the S&T forums. There's quite a bit of knowledge over there to help answer some of your questions ( in addition to asking here
). Oh, when I get a moment, I'll toss up a SS of an Engineering Specialist city currently in the modern era. Enduring all the negatives and malus's from starting in the AE is definitely worth it. Hope this helps,Drak.
Drakarska
Epic Dadness
As you can see, your still going to get integers. It's just the way things are calculated. Additionally, this was the 1st specialized Engineering city I had since the Ancient Era start. I have a couple of others at various locations that arn't as grand as this one, but they do their job
.You'll definitely want to familiarize yourself with the civics, as well as the relevant techs. They'll help your game oodles.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
Oh... errr... I thought superspies were merged into AND long ago. But spies returning to the nearest city would be nice indeed. Do you have a link for the that mod? I may try to use my humble skills to merge this thing.
@ToastedHCL
Firstly, I wish you to get better and/or that your health to stabilize to a levél you find acceptable, satisfying.
Secondly, thank you for the praise
Well, I meant to make the early game "small scale". Focus on one city and micromanage it. I know it is very different from BtS.
I'm open to all suggestions on how to make it more interesting and fun.
I'll try to check it. Thanks for the save.
No, because that's arcane magic (high level programming). If the coding expert modders couldn't fix it, than I won't either
But if should ever a modcomp come out fixing, I'll try to merge that if I can.
That scales with map size and era. What's considered too far in the ancient era, is fine in the medieval era and meaningless in the modern.
Also, 5 tiles distance is nothing on a Huge map but on a Small map it may equal to Madrid-Paris distance.
What about the others? I feel that Prosperity kinda makes all other civics meaningless in the category.
Drakarska
Epic Dadness
It probably is, and I'm probably naming it wrong. I'll look in the old threads when I get home from work tonight.
It does actually. I try to avoid the others as much as possible. On a personal bias, I try to avoid the Oligarchy civic as much as possible.
Usual play style is Autocracy, bee-lining to Monarchy and using whatever sub-civics give me the best advantages at the time. I'll save GP's until I can GA and then switch multiple civics at once. Once I get the Democracy and Liberalism techs, I'll focus on President and Federalism, as those two are hugely powerful towards endgame.
In the above SS, you can see how much gold reserve I have, and how much GPT. Granted, GPT will drop harsh if I build or take over a new city, but simply switching my gold specialist city to wealth solves this issue until things stabilize. And since I built what ever Wonder that halves upgrade costs, spending gold for upgrades isn't really an issue.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
So Oligarchy is rather useless, right?
I remember reading the wiki of a grand strategy game that had autocracy, oligarchy and democracy. Autocracy had agendas, democracy had something else but oligarchy had access to both. Anyone recall the concept?
I remember reading the wiki of a grand strategy game that had autocracy, oligarchy and democracy. Autocracy had agendas, democracy had something else but oligarchy had access to both. Anyone recall the concept?
Drakarska
Epic Dadness
From my perspective, Oligarchy splits the difference between Auto and Demo. The problem is, is the way it's structured in the Civics. Think Merchant princes of Venice. Oligarchy only allows a limited number of cities, and it slows sci. The positive being gold generation of course. In the few attempts I tried it, it really wasn't worth investing in. Autocracy is limited as well, BUT, it doesn't hamper sci and growth as badly as Oli. I've also experimented with Socialism civics a bit, and while powerful in its own right, it just can't beat Demo/Lib. Once you gain Prez and Fed, it's a pure power house. I've had games where multiple AI's switched to Similar civic choices as mine, and it just gets insane ( Having Cupac or Lizzy running the same civics is a true nightmare. Especially Cupac).
It's mostly about player preference I'm sure. Some players may just want to ROFL stomp the AI's ( Autocracy), others may want to go for a Culture or SS win ( Oligarchy) and others like who are builders who want other choices ( Democracy). IMO, The Oli and Auto civics could use another looksee, as I think something is off about them that doesn't mesh well with certain other civics.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
Yes, I meant Oligarchy to be the middle way between Autocracy and Democracy but I think there should be some unique benefits that Oligarchy can provide.
I even had this crazy idea of an (optional) module of Secret Societies somewhat inspired by the thing in Civ6:
Each one would give unique benefits (bonus/buildings/units) and once you choose a Secret Society you are stuck with it (and Oligarchy) for the rest of the game.
Most of them are from other media but I no longer remember the whole list I had thought out. A few I remember:
- Brotherhood of Nod:
Main theme is that they spread tiberium all over the planet and reap the benefits.
- H.Y.D.R.A.
Theme espionage and covert operations.
- Celestials:
Ufo "worshippers". Science and space ship production bonus.
I had a few more but don't remember anymore.
I wonder if there would be an interest in such a module?
I even had this crazy idea of an (optional) module of Secret Societies somewhat inspired by the thing in Civ6:
Each one would give unique benefits (bonus/buildings/units) and once you choose a Secret Society you are stuck with it (and Oligarchy) for the rest of the game.
Most of them are from other media but I no longer remember the whole list I had thought out. A few I remember:
- Brotherhood of Nod:
Main theme is that they spread tiberium all over the planet and reap the benefits.
- H.Y.D.R.A.
Theme espionage and covert operations.
- Celestials:
Ufo "worshippers". Science and space ship production bonus.
I had a few more but don't remember anymore.
I wonder if there would be an interest in such a module?
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
Hihi! I've just found the sketch I wrote about it back in 2020 (wow!)
Spoiler :
ToastedHCL
Always modded, never vanilla
Thanks bro
Haha I thought it was something like that, thanks anyway.No, because that's arcane magic (high level programming). If the coding expert modders couldn't fix it, than I won't either
But if should ever a modcomp come out fixing, I'll try to merge that if I can.
-
I don't want to hijack your thread, Nexus, so I'm starting a new thread to continue the rest of this discussion from my post above. I'm looking forward to you and Drak, along with anyone else that wants to join in later, replying over there. Also, I'm hoping that other people will eventually come and share their own personal tweaks/changes for this mod on the thread.
Here's the link (if it doesn't work right away, try it again a little later as the post is awaiting approval currently): https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...are-our-personal-ideas-tweaks-for-com.688829/
