Comparison of Map Scrips - What's your favorite ?

[JohnnyCamel]

The map is a structural part of gameplay in civ/c2c : the joy of exploration, finding resources and spots for future cities, finding your neighbors (are they close? far away?) - or not finding any, and realising you will be on your own on a small island until the Renaissance...

Several map scripts are available, when starting a new game choosing one is always a challenge for me. In this thread I intend to share my opinion on a few of those scripts. Please share your experience and preference as well, to help everyone get the game they want.

I did not check if those scripts where up to date, and included all terrain types and resources.



Now, for each map script :
- pictures of 3 sample mini maps from worldbuilder, always with map size large, 10 starting civs. I marked with a red spot each starting location)
- some observations


World (Cylindrical)

(first pic : Old World start, other pics : start everywhere)

- large land masses, civs start far from each other
- Old World start : everybody start on same huge continent
- Everywhere start : 5% chance to start alone on your continent, 50% chance to only be 2 civs on same continent.
- lots of resources (~13 per 6x6 tiles square)
- big areas of extreme climates (deserts, taigas)
- frequent coastal mountain ranges
- complex river systems, connecting lakes.



PerfectWorld

(first pic : Old World start, other pics : start everywhere)

- a little bit less land than World script. Civs can start very close to each other, amount of land available per civ varies a lot.
- Old World start : everybody start on same huge continent
- Everywhere start : 10% chance to start alone on your continent, 20% chance to only be 2 civs on same continent.
- medium resources (~10 per 6x6 tiles square)
- huge areas of extreme climates (deserts, taigas), those areas occupy most of the interior of continents. Very dramatic.
- large mountain ranges
- big river systems


MoonGoose


- amount of land per civ similaire to PerfectWorld.
- 7% chance to start alone on your continent, 15% chance to only be 2 civs on same continent.
- medium resources (~10 per 6x6 tiles square)
- big areas of extreme climates (deserts, taigas), but less dramatic than PerfectWorld
- thick mountain ranges, can split continents in half
- not so pretty toundra lands near poles, very bland


Tectonics


- less land per civ than previous map scripts.
- 25% chance to start alone on your continent, 50% chance to only be 2 civs on same continent.
- medium resources (~10 per 6x6 tiles square)
- no large areas of extreme climates, overall land is easy to settle
- many lakes
- no ice sheet
- sometimes a strange pregenerated island (with man made structures) appears?


Terra


- OldWorld start is imposed, all civs on same huge continent
- civs always start close to each other, a lot less land available per civ (on starting continent) than previous scripts.
- less resources than other scripts (~7 per 6x6 tiles square)
- no large areas of extreme climates, overall land is easy to settle (prairies everywhere!)
- long rivers
- no ice sheet
- archipelago of tiny (1 tile) islands


Big and Small


- average amount of land per civ, evenly distributed
- 3% chance to start alone on your continent, 7% chance to only be 2 civs on same continent.
- low resources (~7 per 6x6 tiles square)
- no large areas of extreme climates, overall land is easy to settle
- many islands, of all sizes.
- no ice sheet


EDIT : I added a few mapscripts from your responses

Planetgenerator (with Thunderbird's parameters)


- huge land masses, civs start far from each other
- 10% chance to start alone on your continent, 20% chance to only be 2 civs on same continent
- many tiny (1-2 tiles) islands
- low resources (~7 per 6x6 tiles square)
- no big areas of extreme climates, but land not too easy to settle (muddy/marsh/barren/rocky terrains are frequent)
- very large and complex river systems


World (Toroidal)

(first pic : Old World start, other pics : start everywhere)

- large land masses, civs start far from each other (closer in Old World starts)
- Old World start : everybody start on same huge continent
- Everywhere start : 20% chance to start alone on your continent, 25% chance to only be 2 civs on same continent.
- average resources (~10 per 6x6 tiles square)
- some areas of extreme climates (deserts, taigas), but not too big. Overall land is easy to settle
- few rivers, not very large


Archipelago


- very small land masses, civs start isolated from each other
- 60% chance to start alone on your (small) continent, 40% chance to be 2 civs on same continent.
- Usually your starting island connects with other island and other civs through coastal waters, but it is not always the case! Your starting island can be very small (I've seen one having only 20 tiles total with no other island accessible by coastal waters).
- low resources (~7 per 6x6 tiles square)
- Overall land is easy to settle (no full desert island, however closer to polar areas settling is more difficult)
- rivers are very rare
- no ice sheet

 

[KaTiON_PT]

I know that the only map script that is regularly updated is the PerfectWorld one by Toffer.

EDIT: Sorry, it's the World one.

 

[Toffer90]

Awesome of you to make such a great overview.

You should do a similar one for toroidal maps too, World mapscript does those significantly more interesting than other scripts do, due to having a 4 dimensional noise field for the height map.
Other mapscripts based on noise fields only use a 3 dimensional noise field (e.g. PW and PM) and therefore have a lot of self imposed rules in their code that restricts what is possible in an attempt to avoid mirroring and landmass strangeness at all the edges.

 

[JohnnyCamel]

World mapscript does those significantly more interesting than other scripts do, due to having a 4 dimensional noise field for the height map.

World was my go to map for a long time, but I was getting a bit tired of it (the amount of land and resources available made games less challenging?). Recently I have been playing Tectonics and found it refreshing (though I still think it gives a bit too much resources)

 

[Toffer90]

World allow you to reduce the amount of resources during setup. try 50% resources option.
If you want less land then there's the waterworld landform option and the sea level options that can help with that.

Arid climate can increase the size of deserts without affecting the amount of polar regions. Less fruitful land.
Tropical increases desert sizes but also decreases polar regions.

 

[Thunderbrd]

My usual fav map/settings:
C2C_Planet Generator_0_68
with

* 2-5 or 2-7 continents
* Min 3 or 4 water tile separation
* smart selection Continent distribution
* Landmass Continent shape or smart random
* common islands
* Relative Continent size by player count
* More than 40% ocean
* sometimes land near pole ice
* 25% of empty area islands
* One tile islands allowed
* some peaks groups up to 5
* many hills groups up to 5
* climate variation: normal
* humidity: normal
* temperature: normal
* Flood Plains: many (spreads more)

Using game options of more rivers and resources.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I was going to vote for World, as atm it is the Map I use the most right now. But it is not an exclusive usage. I also still play PerfectMongoose3 ( Moongoose is Perfect Mongoose) from which Toffer based his C2C_World map. So these 2 Map system are closely related.

But I am still partial to the Civ4 basic map Archipelago as well. So I voted Other.

I also disagree OP with your assessment that Mongoose is "bland". Eye of the beholder type judgement.

All of these maps will be on Low sea levels 90% of the time with the other 10% on Medium Sea levels (Size of Map will dictate this).

I used to play Huge. But now have ratcheted down to Standard after a fair period of using Large. Especially after raxo2222's Map size changes and rechanges.

Other variables I'll edit in later.

 

[JohnnyCamel]

I also disagree OP with your assessment that Mongoose is "bland". Eye of the beholder type judgement.

I was only refering to the tundra land, near the poles, not the map in general.


If I had to make a more general statement, I would say Tectonics, Terra and Big&Small are much more uniform that the other scripts (more prairies, less desert, smaller moutain ranges, thin jungles, ...). This kind of land is actually okay for me when amount of land per civ is low (it gives you a chance of having 3 decent cities before having to wage wars). But in my opinion (or at least in the games I am looking for) you shouldn't be able to build a kingdom of 8+ cities of this kind by the half of ancient period without being challenged by your neighbors (you then easily snowball into victory). I often ended up in these situation in my games with World map scripts, but I will have to try Toffers advice (increase sea level, reduce resources and make it more arid).

But I am still partial to the Civ4 basic map Archipelago as well.

I admit I tend to give up games as soon as I find out I'm alone on my continent, which I guess happens frequently on Archipelago (haven't tested it much). How do your games on these maps unfold : when do you start meeting other civs, what kind of interactions do you have with them? Is it a race to expand into virgin territories, before engaging in wars? AI is not good at naval invasions, so a conquest-type game would seem unfair to me here.

 

[JosEPh_II]

AI is not good at naval invasions, so a conquest-type game would seem unfair to me here.

AI is more than adequate at Naval invasions on an Archipelago map. So your impression is not correct.

And yes you can be alone until Seafaring or later before you meet anyone else. Depends upon how many AI you place in the game and map size. It generally allows most but not all Civs to be more developed when you do start discovering the world. So you meet overall stronger more developed Empires later in the game.

If you are isolated then you will have to be mindful that those AI that meet earlier and have developed trade will be stronger than you when you do meet them.

I admit I tend to give up games as soon as I find out I'm alone on my continent,

Why would you do this? An erroneous impression that the AI is bad at Navan warfare?

The Naval battles and Invasions or just the Age of Discovery on an Archipelago or Islands map can be highly entertaining.

 

[Toffer90]

@JosEPh_II , what do you think about Worlds archipelago maps? Too big islands perhaps?

 

[JosEPh_II]

@JosEPh_II , what do you think about Worlds archipelago maps? Too big islands perhaps?

Since I like Low or Medium Sea levels they are not bad at all. Remember on a Standard map I will only play 7 total players, sometimes the default 8. So you do end up with groupings of Empires on the largest landmasses. I never use Old World start mainly because iirc that would start everyone on the same land mass. Am I wrong on this?

Your Water World on Medium sea level is sparse. Needs a few more small islands and/ortiny Islands scattered about some more imho.

With both Archipelago and Water World there is a dearth of rivers though in your C2C_World system. Even with a +2 setting.

Every Map for me is the exploration part. This is way I rarely ever play an Earth type map like GEM, LEM or SEM. Once you know your landmass shape you then know where every thing is. But these maps that are Not Earth replicas provide hours of exploration and discovery. This is Fun for me.

 

[Toffer90]

Since I like Low or Medium Sea levels they are not bad at all. Remember on a Standard map I will only play 7 total players, sometimes the default 8. So you do end up with groupings of Empires on the largest landmasses. I never use Old World start mainly because iirc that would start everyone on the same land mass. Am I wrong on this?

You are right if the map only contains two landmasses, then all would start on one of them as the other will be designated new world.
But there is a tendency where there is more than 2 landmasses.
e.g. If there are 5 landmasses then 3 of them may be designated new world, and 2 of them as old world, biggest landmasses are always old world so there tend to me more but smaller ones that get to be "new world".

Start everywhere is enforced on World mapscript under the archipelago landmass option, because I couldn't see how I could elegantly make sure that an area of the map is not reachable through coast and sea tiles when it consist of so many islands.

Your Water World on Medium sea level is sparse. Needs a few more small islands and/ortiny Islands scattered about some more imho.

With both Archipelago and Water World there is a dearth of rivers though in your C2C_World system. Even with a +2 setting.

Something for me to tweak then.

 

[JohnnyCamel]

I added the Planetgenerator, World (Toroidal) and Archipelago mapscripts to my original post.

 

[irishhombre]

Who ever made perfect world, no offense meant, either I'm doing something very wrong or that is one weird map. I had space resources on an Earth map, plus the weirdest resources on top of mountains. Oh almost forgot about sea resources on land.

 

[Toffer90]

plus the weirdest resources on top of mountains.

Sea lions I suspect. ^^

 

[irishhombre]

Animals of all sorts

 

[raxo2222]

Got this bug when I used perfectworld to generate Gigantic map.

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "C2C_PerfectWorld2f", line 5990, in assignStartingPlots

  File "C2C_PerfectWorld2f", line 4337, in SetStartingPlots

ZeroDivisionError: float division
ERR: Python function assignStartingPlots failed, module C2C_PerfectWorld2f

So mapscript is buggy.

@irishhombre upload save, since map looks normal for me, that is no weird resources spawning in weird places.
Same python bug happened in perfect moongoose mapscript.

 

[irishhombre]

Sorry no longer have save, after I saw map that was generated I went back to menu and tried different map script.

 

[raxo2222]

Sorry no longer have save, after I saw map that was generated I went back to menu and tried different map script.

Update to latest SVN then - probably resource bug was fixed, as I didn't saw weird resource generation (for Gigantic size) for perfectworld and perfectmoongose.

 

[irishhombre]

Well I never run maps larger than standard, I can literally hear my poor laptop struggling if I do. SVN is always up to date.