Crash Exception Policy Update

[Denniz]

We have updated the Crash Exception Policy and moved it to it's own tab on the rules web page. Please read. Hopefully, the requirements are clearer now. If something is not clear or you have any questions about the policy please post them here so we can improve the text.

Note: We intend to enforce all those requirements from this point forward. They are what we need to judge whether the game is acceptable.
If it is important enough to you that we consider a game in spite of reloading/replaying due to a crash, then complying with the requirements should be worth your time.

With regards to late game crashes:
The policy no longer states only one crash per game. That does not mean multiple crashes are now acceptable. It means that with long games (such as Time victory condition) we will no longer automatically exclude for more than one crash. We will consider each situation based on it own merits.

 

[cabert]

the link seems broken

 

[Ozbenno]

Here is the right link.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Well a victory for common sense. I still think time victories shouldn't be required for QM/EQM though

 

[Mesix]

It's only one (or two it fill both columns) Time VC game. I don't mind playing the Time VC game at each new EQM level that I try for. What bites me is having to load up the old Vanila (kind of like a 1/2 finished Beta version of BTS) to play the Space Race VC game that is required.

Why can't there be a BTS only EQM (like there is a Vanila+Warlords) for those of us that don't have an interest in playing the rhudementary original release of Vanila?

BTW (on topic) thanks for the update to the crash policy. I had gotten used to the old policy (which was reworded due to my complaints about an excluded game), and have grown accustomed to just restarting my game when it crashes most of the time. I'll look over the new guidelines and make sure that any games that I submit with a crash conform to the new rules.

 

[m4gill4]

Thanks, this sounds like something that makes your jobs a bit harder, but I appreciate the effort to make things easier for the players.

 

[Misotu]

This is *wonderful* Thanks so much, I really appreciate the fact that you've taken time to consider this - it will make Time games a lot less nerve-wracking.

 

[Denniz]

If you are pront to crashes when movies play, please turn off movies. It is a simple, effective way to avoid the problem.

You will find the option the Graphics tab of the Game Options. (i.e. "No Movies")

 

[BLubmuz]

This is *wonderful* Thanks so much, I really appreciate the fact that you've taken time to consider this - it will make Time games a lot less nerve-wracking.

Agreed.
Just noticed this, i'm waiting for the new Mod to start submit again.

 

[Misotu]

Me too - for Time victories at least. Denniz has indicated that the new Mod will address the awful global warming factor, which is another thing to be grateful for

 

[unclethrill]

I think I like the old crash policy better. I get very few crashes and always follow the letter of the law yet since the new policy has been enacted, every crash has been rejected with no explanation. At least before sometimes they would be accepted.

 

[Mesix]

My crash policy is to restart the game when it crashes. If I am close to the end, I may try to finish and submit all the required files. It is so frustrating to follow all the rules and have it rejected anyway that I would rather just be frustrated for the couple of minutes that it takes to restart then to let the frustration drag out for a day or two until the HOF Staff decides whether or not it is an acceptable submission.

 

[unclethrill]

I hear ya. That will be my new policy too.

It really is frustrating to follow all the rules and then when the occasional crash does occur, all you get is sorry but not good enough. It's not like the games can't be done again and hey it is just a game but why even have a stated crash policy if 99% of crashes are reject with no explanation. If there is something being done wrong then maybe a brief explanation as to why it has been rejected would help in correcting things so that future crashes can be handled in the correct fashion. I'm a software engineer and there is nothing more frustrating than to have the customer say "nope that's not quite right. I'm not gonna tell you how I want it changed but I want it right next time". I feel the same way everytime I get the cursory email from the staff saying " sorry not a good candidate" or "I'm not comfortable with this crash" or "even though we changed the policy and you followed all the rules, your type of crash wasn't our intention".


Oh well. It's just a game!! BTW. I did take Denniz's advice and turned off the movies. Hopefully that will stop the crashes altogether.

 

[Mesix]

My crashes are more than occasional on my Vista laptop. Now that I have HOF installed on my desktop at home, I should be able to handle larger maps and longer games.

I think I'll turn off the movies on my laptop too.

BTW, how is your Chilis food? My potatoes aren't very good.

 

[Denniz]

We want people to be able take advantage of the crash exception policy. We just don't want them taking advantage of it. Think quality rather than quantity.

 

[unclethrill]

So we should crash the game in a more quality manner or we should submit less files with a crash?

 

[Denniz]

We didn't say we would accept more crash exceptions. We said we wouldn't automatically exclude games with multiple crashes for the longer games. Our intent is to minimize crash exceptions. Only the most hard-to-repeat games should be submitted. Even then, they should be so straight-forward and easy to verify that we should be embarrassed we put you through all that rigmarole.

 

[unclethrill]

I got a Deity win on an Ice Age map. It will be difficult for me to reproduce. There was only one crash and I made no moves on the turn prior to the crash so it should be pretty straight-forward to verify.

But alas, you aren't going to accept it so I won't make any further comments on it. I just won't submit any more crashed games.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Fortunately, I've never needed to submit a Game with a crash, especially since BtS 3.13 was released. Also, BtS 3.17 is virtually crash proof as far as I can tell.

However, I still have a number of comments on the new "Crash Exception Policy" ...

The submission requirements when attempting to salvage a game following a crash to desktop (CTD) are:

Is this statement to be taken literally? In other words, the new policy applies only to crashes that cause Civ4/C4W/BtS to abort/terminate and leave the MS Windows OS in a running state? This would seem to exclude power outages, or the Blue Screen of Death. It would also exclude clearly erroneous functioning of Civ4/C4W/BtS where it remains running, but in a non-playable and non-saveable state.

On my old computer, I encountered a situation where only parts of the Game Display where visible. The worst was when absolutely nothing was displayed except units (everything else was black). In this case, I was able to do a manual save and restart the Game, so "Crash Exception Policy" didn't really apply. But suppose the game stopped responding to keystrokes as well as the menu system, making a manual save quite impossible.

* Only the most recent autosave file can be used. Only one turn can be replayed.

Suppose there are one or more manual saves before the crash that are later/newer than the latest autosave file? wouldn't it make more sense to duplicate moves from the latest save file, autosave or manual before the crash?

* Two save files are required to verify the circumstances of the crash:
o The autosave file used to restart following the crash.
o A manual save file taken at the point when you have replayed up until the point you where when the crash occurred.

You may also want any manual saves made both after the autosave and before the crash.

Finally, a generic comment: After reading the new "Crash Exception Policy", it seems to imply that only Games with a single crash will be considered. No where does the policy say that Games with more than one crash will be considered, or that long Games like Time Games can be submitted with more than one crash.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Denniz]

Fortunately, I've never needed to submit a Game with a crash, especially since BtS 3.13 was released. Also, BtS 3.17 is virtually crash proof as far as I can tell.

I guess it depends on your system. If 3.17 were crash proof then I guess we can forget about a crash policy then...

Is this statement to be taken literally? In other words, the new policy applies only to crashes that cause Civ4/C4W/BtS to abort/terminate and leave the MS Windows OS in a running state? This would seem to exclude power outages, or the Blue Screen of Death. It would also exclude clearly erroneous functioning of Civ4/C4W/BtS where it remains running, but in a non-playable and non-saveable state.

On my old computer, I encountered a situation where only parts of the Game Display where visible. The worst was when absolutely nothing was displayed except units (everything else was black). In this case, I was able to do a manual save and restart the Game, so "Crash Exception Policy" didn't really apply. But suppose the game stopped responding to keystrokes as well as the menu system, making a manual save quite impossible.

It is not literal. Not that we need to worry about it being taken literally. We get a fair number of the non-CTD variety. The most common error is crash IBT with movies being a big favorite. (The Oracle movie seems to be especially buggy for some reason...)

Suppose there are one or more manual saves before the crash that are later/newer than the latest autosave file? wouldn't it make more sense to duplicate moves from the latest save file, autosave or manual before the crash?

Most crashes happen IBT, so the Autosave example is most applicable. The most recent save is always going to be the one to use. I would say that a crash after a manual save would probably be one of the most suspect instances. Extra care would have to be taken verifying one of those.

Finally, a generic comment: After reading the new "Crash Exception Policy", it seems to imply that only Games with a single crash will be considered. No where does the policy say that Games with more than one crash will be considered, or that long Games like Time Games can be submitted with more than one crash.

We announced that as part of this thread. We removed the statement about only one crash. I was really hesitant to put anthing in there specifying number of crashes we would accept. Your comments illustrate how difficult it is to write something that isn't open to interpretation. We have already had at least one submission 2 BC crashes to be accepted.

If you care to suggest changes to the policy's description/text to make it clearer, please post them here. Maybe with enough eyes on it we can get something that can't be misinterpreted.

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Note: For anyone thinking that this signals a discussion about changes to the policy, please don't. This is only about clarification. I have been sick lately and therefore grumpy. Please don't tease the HOF cat.