Current v1.13 Development Discussion

[Chep]

Now that Balkh is more likely to be in the game, I'd like to have it as the Zoroastrian holy city, but the way the religion is currently founded that doesn't seem to be possible.

remove the settler from persia and preplace the city 1-2 turns before persia spawns as th Zoro-holy city?

 

[Leoreth]

That would be possible, but I'd rather give the player the choice where to found their cities here.

 

[Fresol]

From the look of the map I'd settle on the desert hill 1E of the oasis with the extra starting settler. Aspadana/Isfahan overlaps with Shush too much.

 

[Leoreth]

You guys and your overlaps. I'd rather work the gems and cotton, cities don't grow beyond 10 at that stage of the game anyway.

 

[Fresol]

But settler takes many turns to train. Cotton needs calendar which comes rather late and gems needs spare food to be worked which also does not help with early game(not to mention Persia starts with Monarchy). If I need a city there I'd settle on the plains hill 1S of the cotton.

 

[Chep]

Skip Babylon, they are too hard even without bronze weapons. OB with them, conquer Jerusalem and Sur with 2 immortal & 2 chariots & 1 archer instead. All other unit go east and conquer India, Skip Lahore, attack Delhi - Varanasi - Patna, collapse them, then take Lahore to gain access of precious marble. Build the Oracle in Jerusalem, bulb currency. Research math - calender, you can get other techs by trade.

I did this before Greek conqueror events, and game crashed in turn 118.

I've rolled up ~10 starts on Emperor/Normal so far.
In 7 Babylon had already the Oracle
In 6 Babylon and I started at war - so no OB
In 2 Babylon was conquered by Greece, once they partially collapsed when Shushan flips to me, causing a Babylon-rebirth (10 turns no OB/no war -.-)

So I guess I am just too unlucky for this strategy to work.

@ city placement:
I agree with Leoreth, getting your full BFC takes too long and you need your core cities to be productive quickly, so cramping them a bit closer to the resources seems like the best fit. Unless you want to go for a non-uhv-lategame-Persia, then I'd settle at the far ends of the core to be able to work the most tiles from core cities

 

[Leoreth]

Working the gems should still be worth it, and even if not you claim an early happiness resource. But good point, I think it's justifiable to turn the gems tile into grassland to make it not as prohibitive.

 

[ozqar]

Leoreth, would you by any chance know how many tiles is it 8% of the world? I was playing last night and, although I was anyway far from the 8% goal, the cultural expansion mechanics were not helping much. Another inconvenient were the Pagan temples losing their progress when Zoroastrianism (or Hinduism or Buddhism) spread to the cities. It would be helpful if hammers were not lost at this point, but rather transferred to building the religion's temple.

 

[Leoreth]

I don't know. But in my previous games I've always won the Persian goal without any culture shenanigans.

 

[Chep]

Skip Babylon, they are too hard even without bronze weapons. OB with them, conquer Jerusalem and Sur with 2 immortal & 2 chariots & 1 archer instead. All other unit go east and conquer India, Skip Lahore, attack Delhi - Varanasi - Patna, collapse them, then take Lahore to gain access of precious marble. Build the Oracle in Jerusalem, bulb currency. Research math - calender, you can get other techs by trade.

I did this before Greek conqueror events, and game crashed in turn 118.

I have to say, it seems your game was incredibly lucky.

I rolled up another 10 starts, in all of them Babylon had already build the Oracle or did so within 3 turns of my game.
In 0 of them were they willing to open borders with me.

 

[youtien]

as an alternative, I give you this pic of the Persian starting situation showing the resource distribution and starting units:



(the Iron is marked by a red circle, but you need to research Iron Working first to see it ingame - or open worldbuilder)

Now, the original spot of Parsa is actually better - although not coastal - has access to wheat (5 food). Build granary on start, it will become a good capital. 2nd settler go 2E1N from the oasis, it can fetch all resources nearby. Other city build settler to settle that desert tile on coast, that concludes 3 city in core.

 

[Tigranes]

I have to say, it seems your game was incredibly lucky.

I rolled up another 10 starts, in all of them Babylon had already build the Oracle or did so within 3 turns of my game.
In 0 of them were they willing to open borders with me.

I second this experience...

 

[youtien]

I second this experience...

OK, I suggest: nerf the Oracle. Remove the free tech, give some pagan temple bonus or culture bonus or something that's not OP and helps Greeks UHV mildly.

About free tech, make it a classical national wonder or project, so every civ can have it, or let palace have 1 slot of each type of specialist, or let every civ gain a free great people by choice once their culture hits 500, 2500 and 12500. Then we won't whine on the damn Oracle anymore.

 

[citis]

Do you try this on Paragon? Well paragon is meant to be undoable, to uncover exploitations. It shouldn't happen in Regent though, and emperor should be doable sometimes.

 

[Leoreth]

New commit:
- adjusted Persian settler map to new city locations
- several Greek and Roman conqueror events require previous events to have been successful to take effect
- fixed Parthian Empire dynamic name for Persia

 

[jcoto]

May I ask what's the point of the two gem resources north of canada near the artic? I think you can only get one, since the other is too far from any tile that can support a city, right?

 

[FinalLegendZero]

May I ask what's the point of the two gem resources north of canada near the artic? I think you can only get one, since the other is too far from any tile that can support a city, right?

It's possible to settle in a place where the third culture ring will cover the second gem source. It won't be workable by the city, but it can still be used to trade or for the Luxury Industry corporation.

 

[Leoreth]

Does everyone share my observation that Arabia is generally too stable and too powerful?

If so, what should be done about it? Reduce tech rate, unit production ...? They shouldn't survive the Seljuk and Mongol invasions in any case.

 

[Theodorick]

I've actually had 2 Persia starts since the new commit where Babylon has longbowman. Am I just having real bad luck, or is this happening for others?

 

[Chep]

please don't reduce their tech rate pre-renaissance as they really need it for their UHV (on higher difficulty levels this one is already almost impossible).

They have a high stability bonus from the religious unity their UP gives, so maybe they could do with a slightly smaller core (although...it already is only Mekka, Baghdad, Damasc and Jerusalem, right?) Maybe make Jerusalem historic after it flips to them.

higher cost for units could work, but as usual the important part for the human player usually is that initial conquest, so maybe giving them 1 additional camel archer at start for 10% higher unit costs is an option (or something like that)