Disillusioned members of the left. Disillusioned members ont he right.

[Israelite9191]

I am a liberal and gosh darn proud of it. However, I am extremely disapointed in the Democratic Party. They are a bunch of wussy wimps with no spines who vote for whatever this evangelical nut job who speaks for satan of a president puts in front of them. They have tried to use the xenophobic nature of Middle America for their poilitcal gain. The only Democratic politicians (on the national stage) that I still support are Senator Obama, Senator Feingold, and Senatory Kennedy. They're the only ones with the guts to stand up to the Republican rhetoric machine and the President's "lie and cheat your way to the office of leader of the free world riding a wave of evangelical Chtistians, Arab sheiks, and daddy Bush" platform. If it were up to me every other Democrat on capitol hill would be executed for treasony for not standing up and protecting the country from the madman we have as a president and the evangelical nutjobs that make up the Republicans in Congress. Really, I am ashamed to call myself a Democrat now adays.

 

[h4ppy]

Lol, I especially love the Obama, Feingold, and Kennedy part.

 

[Israelite9191]

Hmm, I am not sure if your are being serious or sarcastic. Well, I wil take it as a compliment/agreement unless you say otherwise.

 

[h4ppy]

It was sarcasm. Really I'd place most of the blame on people like Kennedy who have been totally ineffective at beating the Republicans. Oh and I don't like killers either when the victim has done nothing against the country.

 

[Israelite9191]

Kennedy I can kind of understand not liking, I just personally find his interviews on the Sunday morning talk shows heartening to listen to, so I give him a pass. However, the only Democratic ticket I could picture supporting at this time would be a Feingold for president and Obama for vice president (Obama's already said he would not run for president).

 

[downtown]

I suppose why you (anr anyone) woudl bother supporting parties that (and lets ignore the fact that they are both comrpised by scum of the earth here) parties that rarelly actually represent anyone (even thier own) interests.

Well, i totally disagree with what you just said..or at least i think i do, because its pretty hard to read.

First, i wouldnt call people who run the parties "scum of the earth". I've met a lot of them...some of them go to my church, work at my school, etc. Some, like Tom Delay, use their posistion for evil, and dont care about the people they represent. Most of them, both the actual senators/govs, and the myraid of people under them, are regular ol' guys like you and me.

That attitude, i think, is pretty harmful. It basically removes all responsibilty from you. Hey, you think it sucks? Do something about it.

I support a political party because i still think, more often than not, my interests are represented and worked towards. I owe a lot to federal programs. Clinton's insurance policies helped save my family from going bankrupt. I'm going to college, in part, because of federal pell grants and subsidized loans. My little sister's diabetic drugs are paid for in part because of state programs, because we cant afford it....all programs created by "the scum of the earth".

It aint perfect, but i dont see any of you guys with better ideas

 

[Israelite9191]

Those programs were created back when the Democratic party had guts and brains. How I long for the days of Clintion presidency. Ah, but that was a sweet interlude. Now, the Repulblican nut jobs and the Democratic wuses are all we have. G-d help us, truly, G-d help us.

 

[h4ppy]

Kennedy I can kind of understand not liking, I just personally find his interviews on the Sunday morning talk shows heartening to listen to, so I give him a pass. However, the only Democratic ticket I could picture supporting at this time would be a Feingold for president and Obama for vice president (Obama's already said he would not run for president).

What special things has Obama exactly done to make you like him other than being a good speaker and beating some crazy carpetbagger.

 

[Israelite9191]

I happen to live in Illinois, and the policies he put forth during his campaign as well as his voting record (ignoring a couple minor lapses) after going to capitol hill, as well as his actions on several commities and hearings have earned him my respect.

 

[Irish Caesar]

Those programs were created back when the Democratic party had guts and brains. How I long for the days of Clintion presidency. Ah, but that was a sweet interlude. Now, the Repulblican nut jobs and the Democratic wuses are all we have. G-d help us, truly, G-d help us.

But the Republicans were running Capitol Hill during the Clinton years...

 

[Israelite9191]

Only part of the Clinton years, and the programs, oddly enough, fit the Democratic platform rather than the Republican platform. Maybe that was becuase Clinton used his political capitol to positively influence Congress as well as the fact that the Democrats still had the guts to stand up to a Republican majority and get Democratic points passed? For instance, taxes were raised during the Clinton presidency, a Democratic position. All of the programs MattBrown mentions are Democratic programs (medicair and such are also supported by a good number of Republicans, but it was the Republicans who voted for cuts and insane reforms in medicair as well as proposing the elimination of Social Security).

 

[Irish Caesar]

You see those programs, I see welfare reform and a lack of deficit, we're both happy. So sometimes politicians can make both sides happy.

Now if I could opt out of Social Security, I'd be even happier.

But that's a story for another day.

 

[Irish Caesar]

Double post. But I'll leave the coffee guy.

 

[kingjoshi]

Clinton was famous for taking credit for Republican reforms. I never liked the guy. And I can't stand Bush. There's not a party I can support. But I'm an illegal alien anyways

 

[BasketCase]

I am a liberal and gosh darn proud of it. However, I am extremely disapointed in the Democratic Party. They are a bunch of wussy wimps with no spines who vote for whatever this evangelical nut job who speaks for satan of a president puts in front of them.

Ralph Nader has a spine. What he doesn't have is election victories. Another thing he has is a lot of complaints from mainstream Democrats that he's siphoning votes off the Democrats and keeping the Republicans in power.

The people you're complaining about (i.e. the Democrats in Congress) are there because the voting public put them there. That's the way it should be. That the system is not working the way you want it to does not mean it's broken, because you're only one 300-millionth of the system.

 

[Irish Caesar]

The people you're complaining about (i.e. the Democrats in Congress) are there because the voting public put them there. That's the way it should be. That the system is not working the way you want it to does not mean it's broken, because you're only one 300-millionth of the system.

Yes, and now the people couldn't get them out of there if they tried. It's hard enough to get Americans to vote for president, why would they vote for their Congressman? And with the huge amounts of money and name recognition that the average Senator has (Kennedy will be a Senator long after he dies, I'm sure...), it's near impossible to defeat an incumbent anyway. Never mind the way the district lines are drawn for House seats.

Yep, that's the way the system's meant to work!

 

[Ayatollah So]

Maybe the masses of Dems and Repubs could form a loose and limited alliance with each other to drive out the worst corruption from both parties. Basically by outing it (sunshine tends to have wonderful sterilization effects on some nasty germs). Agree in advance to keep the "outings" equalized between the two parties.

Two minor technical problems with my idea: getting it started, and keeping it from breaking down over fairness issues.

 

[Irish Caesar]

^ And the fact that whichever party is in power will be far more corrupt than the opposition minority party.

 

[MikeLynch]

"Man, a social animal, could no more avoid government than an individual could escape the necessity of bowel movements. But simply because an evil was necessary was no reason to term it 'good'."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

 

[Israelite9191]

EDIT: ^^^ I can agree with /EDIT

The media is supposed to do that. They did that during the Nixon presidency, but they wont do it now.

As for Ralph Nader, he is not a member of the Democratic Party, which means my criticisms do not apply to him. In fact, I rather like his policies, except for his anti-Israel stance. But that is a discussion for another day, one I have to much in real life to want to have here.

Yes, your right that it is the fault of the people, to an extent, for putting these people in Congress. But it is not entirely, especially when you consider that often enough less than half of the elecotrate (either registered or citizens over 18) is often the amount that comes out to vote for Senate, it tends to be even worse for Representatives. The only people voting are those who really care about the politician. It is also the fault of the politician because it is their job, once elected, to serve the people and serve them fairly. Instead, they become wishy washy corrupt wuses. They (almost) always go against their campaign promises once in office. That is why I despise the Democrats on Capitol Hill.

As for Bill Clinton, I wont even get into that.