Gallic Warrior: Best strategy?

[Ramesses-Rules]

I tried my hand at warmongering with Gallic Warriors. Ghandi was right next door with only Archers. Gallic Warriors absolutely crushed his Archers even with 50% cultural defenses. Impressive. I could never do that with War Chariots.

Unfortunately, Cyrus unexpectedly attacked me as I was half-way done with Ghandi. Is that just bad luck, or does this often happen when Brennus does early rushes at Immortal level?

Today, I had my fourth Cultural Victory at Immortal with Rammesses, so I decided to try one of my rare efforts at warmongering. I'd like to hear from some of you guys who play Brennus regularly. I really don't have the feel for him yet, but the general strategy would seem to beeline to Iron and go slaughter somebody. Right?

 

[Mylene]

An other AI declaring on you is not connected to Celts /wink Lymo
Was he bribed in, aka did one of them have Alpha already?
Overall once you enter war, you look better as target for other AIs, and increases with each AI you are at war with (you can also see this when bribing AIs yourself, gets much cheaper if the AI you bribe them on already wars)

 

[Doshin]

I don't think it's a *good* strategy, but I've rushed a solid protective opponent (Tokugawa) on Deity with Gallic Warriors after building Stonehenge.

SH was there to generate Great Prophet points. With the Great Prophet, you can bulb Theology and switch into Theocracy. 5XP Gallic Warriors provide instant access to the Guerilla II and III promotions. Guerilla II grants double movement on hills in addition to the defense bonus. This speeds the rush up. Guerilla III provides a 50% withdrawal rate during an attack. Compare HAs to this, which have a 20% withdrawal chance and cost 10 per unit more.

Brennus could presumably receive an earlier Great Prophet because Spiritual grants cheap temples (run a Specialist). Boudica's Gallic Warriors will start with Combat I.

It's fun anyway

 

[ohjames]

Gallic Warriors are okay, but don't overlook the Dun. If you head up through Engineering in order to war a lot during the BCs and early ADs you'll want Duns for Castles, anyway.

If you're in Vassalage Theocracy with the Duns you're only a settled GG away from Guerilla III Crossbows/Longbows, which are pretty tasty.

 

[lymond]

Alright, Ram! Good to see you in the right place.

Well, actually I'm one of the few big fans of the Gallic Warrior. The GW is a very underrated UU. Personally, I like them better than Praets on higher levels.

The key to GW is twofold. First, it is basically the only unit outside mounted units that provide a tactical advantage on higher levels. Yeah, Impis can use tactics but are really not strong attack units above...say..prince. The fact that GW start with Guerrilla I (only melee unit to get this promo) and can start out the gate with GII, allows for faster movement across the map using hills. Make use of hills around enemy cities to attack fast and surprise.

Second, the G line on GWs and the fact that both Boudi and Bren are Charismatic, means that you will get GIII very quickly, and even out the gate with a settled GG. GIII is very powerful. 50% retreat odds is very nice on a strong early attack unit. When you start adding City Raider on top of that, it becomes crazy. So basically, GWs are very strong before siege arrives. In addition, the defense bonus for GII means you don't need as much in the way of support units.

If you happen to build a Dun - a generally weak UB - and have Archery, you can send along some GII-III archers with your stack for some additional protection of your GWs and those ARchers can keep pace over mountains. So some synergy there.

Also, note that although you do need IW for GWs, you can build them with either Copper or Iron.

Boudi is obviously a great warmonger leader with Agg/Char as the GWs start with CombatI/GII out the gate, but Bren is good enough with Char and Spiritual is obviously a much better trait than Agg. Plus, as I'm sure you know, it is good for culture wins.

The main issue with Celts is poor starting techs and really no Economic traits. CHAR is a good trait, but you really have nothing to boost your way to IW. Ideally you will get a start with some commerce resource nearby to speed things along or get POT asap to get some cottages going.

Main thing though is to get GWs online quickly, keep building them, and unleash your Celtic wrath on your neighbors. Use that G line of promos.

As for Bren, I do know that as an AI he is often generally disliked early by many AIs, kinda like DeGaulle. This may apply to a human playing Bren with hidden diplo maluses with the AI, which may put you at a diplo disadvantage early. Always note your diplo situation before and during an attack on an AI, especially after Alpha is in play. If possible, try to get peace treaties, but otherwise make sure you protect yourself against potential aggressors.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

Alright, Ram! Good to see you in the right place.

Well, actually I'm one of the few big fans of the Gallic Warrior. The GW is a very underrated UU. Personally, I like them better than Praets on higher levels.

The key to GW is twofold. First, it is basically the only unit outside mounted units that provide a tactical advantage on higher levels. Yeah, Impis can use tactics but are really not strong attack units above...say..prince. The fact that GW start with Guerrilla I (only melee unit to get this promo) and can start out the gate with GII, allows for faster movement across the map using hills. Make use of hills around enemy cities to attack fast and surprise.

Second, the G line on GWs and the fact that both Boudi and Bren are Charismatic, means that you will get GIII very quickly, and even out the gate with a settled GG. GIII is very powerful. 50% retreat odds is very nice on a strong early attack unit. When you start adding City Raider on top of that, it becomes crazy. So basically, GWs are very strong before siege arrives. In addition, the defense bonus for GII means you don't need as much in the way of support units.

If you happen to build a Dun - an generally weak UB - and have Archery, you can send along some GII-III archers with your stack for some additional protection of your GWs and those ARchers can keep pace over mountains. So some synergy there.

Also, note that although you do need IW for GWs, you can build them with either Copper or Iron.

Boudi is obviously a great warmonger leader with Agg/Char as the GWs start with CombatI/GII out the gate, but Bren is good enough with Char and Spiritual is obviously a much better trait than Agg. Plus, as I'm sure you know, it is good for culture wins.

The main issue with Celts is poor starting techs and really no Economic traits. CHAR is a good trait, but you really have nothing to boost your way to IW. Ideally you will get a start with some commerce resource nearby to speed things along or get POT asap to get some cottages going.

Main thing though is to get GWs online quickly, keep building them, and unleash your Celtic wrath on your neighbors. Use that G line of promos.

As for Bren, I do know that as an AI he is often generally disliked early by many AIs, kinda like DeGaulle. This may apply to a human playing Bren with hidden diplo maluses with the AI, which may put you at a diplo disadvantage early. Always note your diplo situation before and during an attack on an AI, especially after Alpha is in play. If possible, try to get peace treaties, but otherwise make sure you protect yourself against potential aggressors.

Thanks. I actually posted it on the Civ-5 thread by accident. Oh well, I finally arrived here.

I am also fast becoming a GW fan. I can see already that it can be a great early rush unit if played correctly (still working on that!). With Spiritual trait, Bren also has a decent chance to found a religion early, or switch into cultural victory mode if my warmongering goes array. I think I am going to try to take out 2 or 3 cities early from my nearest neighbor, make peace, beeline to Construction, and then finish him off. In my first attempt, I got a Great General from my initial attack, so that will really help me get some strong units in the second wave of my attack.

You're right about the slow economy to start. Ramesses spoiled me. i can build farms right at the start with him. Do you still make Worker your first build and Wheel the first tech so that the first Worker can build roads while you are researching the other Worker techs (pottery, mining, masonry)? I haven't' gotten the feel for the best start yet with Bren (I play Warlords, so I don't have access to the other Celtic civ you mention).

 

[lymond]

^^^Depends on land since Celt starting techs blow, but I always go food first, unless you have a deer start. Then BW, TW and IW, if you are going to attack early and have neighbors, again map dependent. I never go early religion with any leader, it is a waste. except maybe in lower level culture games which I would only play in HOF games. I may go POT before IW if I have good cottageable land near cap as this can speed IW. Of course, gold or gem always helps the Celts. The more you get in the habit of ignoring crap early religions and other junk techs, and go for food>strats next, the more successful your game will be. It will change your overall game for the better.

edit: Oh yeah...and generally always worker first. The exception may be some starts as due to the land and poor start techs, you may end with idle worker turns. Might be best to get out a warrior or 2 first and go steal a worker. Build worker at size 2. If I have deer or AH resources, I will probably go worker first

 

[vicawoo]

Gallic warriors, like swordsmen, are ok until they get axes. Which they probably have at higher levels because they prioritize ironworking.

 

[Culture Bomb]

I've sometimes wondered if with the Celts it would be worth avoiding Rifling and teching to Chemistry & Military Science instead, since grenadiers can benefit from the dun.

Probably not a good strategy on deity, but it can be fun on lower levels.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

Gallic warriors, like swordsmen, are ok until they get axes. Which they probably have at higher levels because they prioritize ironworking.

That's what I have been thinking. The GW needs to attack while the AI only has Archers to defend. That works very well.

Question: If you are planning an early rush, do you build the Dun before you start making GW's? If not then, when?

 

[lymond]

Don't worry about Dun before GWs unless you somehow get Archery before attack and want some GII Archers in the mix. You would only need 1 Dun for that. Duns have no affect on GWs.

I do fine against Axe with GWs by the way, but try to pillage there copper/iron asap. Just try to keep your GWs on hills if near Axe as they do fine on defense. GIII will tear up anything.

If you foe does have some Axe running around after you take cities, you might trail some Axe behind to defend cities as GWs won't defend non-hill cities very well. You can often complete an Axe after 2popping a GW.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

No the Gallic Warrior sucks, don't use it. It is a swordsman with a minor buff.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

Don't worry about Dun before GWs unless you somehow get Archery before attack and want some GII Archers in the mix. You would only need 1 Dun for that. Duns have no affect on GWs.

I do fine against Axe with GWs by the way, but try to pillage there copper/iron asap. Just try to keep your GWs on hills if near Axe as they do fine on defense. GIII will tear up anything.

If you foe does have some Axe running around after you take cities, you might trail some Axe behind to defend cities as GWs won't defend non-hill cities very well. You can often complete an Axe after 2popping a GW.

Man, I just got torched in a new game. The only available Iron was out in the middle of nowhere with zero food sources. Monty was my neighbor and he attacked before I could get much established.

In general, how many GWs would you want to build before you start your rush? So far, I can't agree with the guy who says they are practically no better than regular Swords.

 

[DDRS2]

GW is probably the worst of the three swordsmen UUs. Monty's at least does not require resources.

Vultures are better than GWs considering they come earlier and have the bonus against melee.

 

[ben-jammin]

Swordsmen basically suck for anything except taking barbarian cities.

 

[DDRS2]

Unless it's strength 8. Then it's not so bad.

Or if it has woodsmen II. But that's because it has woodsmen II. Not because it is a swordsmen.

Makes no sense though. Historically swordsmen were awesome.

 

[lymond]

Ah...here comes the anti-GW crowd. Always makes me laugh.

 

[vranasm]

Ah...here comes the anti-GW crowd. Always makes me laugh.

ironic enough in typical game you would laugh over anyone selfteching IW ;-)

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Swordsmen basically suck for anything except taking barbarian cities.

Lol wut? The sword is good unit for Oracling Construction with.

 

[traius]

Gallic Warriors are okay, but don't overlook the Dun. If you head up through Engineering in order to war a lot during the BCs and early ADs you'll want Duns for Castles, anyway.

If you're in Vassalage Theocracy with the Duns you're only a settled GG away from Guerilla III Crossbows/Longbows, which are pretty tasty.

Well, with the Dun and theocracy OR vassalage, you are only a barracks away from Guerilla III Longbows/Crossbows, no GG's required (?)