general feedback.

[deadliver]

Just to clarify...
I was unaware of this, these mana types really get in the way of my towers and i didn't understand their presence. as a game element, they feel incomplete. think of a session at the table of D20 - and the DM gives you a class with cool abilities but doesn't know what they all do yet. it feels like everything meaningful to the game that can be done is already done by the other types.I am unaware of this,

Okay, I am a DM (yes I am nerd, deal with it or lose 500 xp) so your point really doesn't make sense because a good DM (continuing to use your example) provides an adaptive gameworld. Okay, so FF is not complete, Instead you should realize that FF is an ever evolving project that sometimes does not have time to fill in the gaps, much like a DM who has a crazy group (Any DMs who don't have one feel free to pipe in..wait I meant retire). WarKirby explained these "new" mana types. Of course, as an FF player you have experienced FFH2 and MC's ravings about the lack of these "new" mana types in FFH2.

 

[WarKirby]

I love that idea for Creation 3. Better than what we have now, I'd say. Although I dislike the Force III idea. Any spell that kills the caster gets a black mark for me.

 

[Tarquelne]

I love that idea for Creation 3. Better than what we have now, I'd say. Although I dislike the Force III idea. Any spell that kills the caster gets a black mark for me.

I like the great majority of what MC has for those Spheres - esp. Force. I'm not a huge fan of caster-killing spells either... maybe set them back to 0 xps, 0 promos?

(Seriously, though... I think caster-killing is a good option in this case.)

 

[WarKirby]

maybe set them back to 0 xps, 0 promos?

That's pretty much the same thing. Possibly worse, actually, since you'd then have something useless occupying an archmage slot.

If a spell is so powerful that killing the caster seems necessary to balance it, there are other possible solutions. For example, a 5-turn casting delay on this spell.

It's not even that caster-killing spells are bad, per se. But it's ARCHMAGE killing spells, that annoy me. They're very hard to replace, and are usually pet units you've nurtured for a long time. Beside that, with things like Water III, that excellent defensive summon, I can't think of many situations where a sanctuary effect costing you an archmage, would be and more helpful than actually using that archmage to fight off the invaders.

If something has to be sacrificed, I'd rather it be 10 adepts or somesuch. something that can be replaced without a lot of micromanagement and nursing through easy battles.

 

[xienwolf]

You could make it really interesting in balance:

Doesn't kill the archmage, and no casting delay at all
Lose the promotion (to prevent massive spam-casting)
----ALTERNATIVELY---
Upon casting, you gain a promotion "Recovering" which removes Force III (and blocks acquiring it) and has a duration of 23 turns (or whatever is needed to make it longer than the duration of the closed borders * 2), then degrades to Force III (thus giving you back the spell)
----------------------
All units (even your own) are kicked out of your borders and not allowed to come back inside.


Then, your cities are safe, but your units are not. And when the borders open back up, if you haven't built new defenders, it is a race to see who gets back to each city first.



Even if not used here, I gotta say I like the idea of using PromotionOverwrite/PromotionExclude + PromotionDegrade tags to create a "recast delay" for various spells. If you don't make it an Effect Promotion, then you even have a timer displayed for the owner to see when he can cast again

 

[Opera]

Even if not used here, I gotta say I like the idea of using PromotionOverwrite/PromotionExclude + PromotionDegrade tags to create a "recast delay" for various spells. If you don't make it an Effect Promotion, then you even have a timer displayed for the owner to see when he can cast again

Yes, very interesting idea. Might use it for some things

 

[Vermicious Knid]

Wow, "force" mana is not at all what I imagined. The name is very misleading. "Fate" or "balance" would have made more sense.

 

[Jabie]

Intersting ideas, but I am not keen on the desciption of Creation III. If I understand you correctly, the GP could turn up anywhere - quite possibly for the Civ you are currently at war with - which makes the spell useless except for the truly desperate. Adding X% GPP to a City, in the same way that Hope improves Culture, seems a better way of doing it. Why would I waste a slot on something that might not help me when I could summon a Fire Elemental, get a +4 Diplomacy Bonus or vastly terraform my own land instead?

Also Force I - Accelerate fills in a gap in the design of FfH providing a Haste mechanism to Seige Engines and the like.

 

[Cuteunit]

Force mana in patch b completely sucks. The spells being fairly useless and not having any kind of passive effect to make having it not be a complete waste. Force mana is punishment, a penalty.

The worst part? NO CIVPEDIA INFORMATION ON IT. Anywhere. I had to search extensively here just to figure out what Accelerate does. Just wasted three hours of time growing and experimenting with it in a multiplayer game only to be utterly let down.

 

[xienwolf]

Doesn't Force I or II give you the ability to do ranged attacks?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I vaguely recall it giving mages ranged attacks, bu when I made the mortal Auric able to get arcane promotions although remaining unitcombat_melee that he did not get that benefit.

 

[Iceciro]

By the way, MagisterCultuum's modmod ever getting released is the Duke Nuke'm Forever of the Fall community, not that I don't like him as a person or anything, but for at least as long as I've been here there's been people asking about it and getting a "soon" or "when I'm happy with it."

*snicker* there's even a Great Person quote named after him based on it. Again, not that I don't like MC or anything, don't get me wrong.

Back on topic -
Love the Force spell line he's got up. Especially since I've had to take out ranged attacks because they OOS the game but haven't known what to put there. A "go away, demons" spell would be pretty stellar at Force 2. Not sure about Force 1 - could it maybe provide resistance to more types of damage? It's a soft spell for t1, to me.

 

[WarKirby]

What's bad about force mana?

lv1: Haste for catapults, golems, and zombies
lv2: My mages are also archers, yay
lv3: Wall of force is truly and utterly awesome. Unless you're playing at a high difficulty where the AI gets tons of free xp, most AI units are going tbe be below lv4

 

[Iceciro]

That tier one and two Force spells don't really fit the lore, mostly. I don't hate any of the spells in the list, just that they're attached to Force.

 

[Opera]

Yeah, can't see why they are. Someone wanted to put them in and Force was the only sphere left?

 

[westamastaflash]

Creation III: Prodigious Birth - causes a random great person to be born in a random city of a random civ. Has a 4 turn delay.

Why would I cast this if it gives a chance to help my enemies?

 

[WarKirby]

Casting Wonder has a chance to help your enemies too.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I do like FF's Force III spell, but haven't taken the time to make an FF based modmod yet so I don't have the capacity to use it.



I just thought I'd mention that in versions since I last described my spells I made some changes.

Force III: Summon Runewyn - Summons a Runewyn (a type of Angel of Dadga that can be seen found in the Bestiary of Erebus) - This Magic Immune summon targets Arcane units (especially Archmages) in stacks. It also has a large combat bonus against and defends first against both arcane and disciple units. In some versions it has a python call that can remove promotions granted by spells, spell spheres, and even channeling promotions from units in stacks it attacks.




Dimensional III: Summon Tesseract changed to open Rift. This still acts like an ICBM, but instead of carrying cargo it creates a Portal leading to the tile of its summoner (and one of its summoner's tile leading to its tile) as soon as it lands, and is then dies. The for the code to work properly I had to make the spell immobilize the caster, but once the portal is made it is allowed to move again.




Somehow I broke Creation III, but I'm not sure how.

 

[Iceciro]

Casting Wonder has a chance to help your enemies too.

Not nearly so often, or to the degree.

 

[WarKirby]

try accidentally Snowfall-ing your capital city sometime, and watch it lose a few pop