AVN
Deity
The pursuit of happiness. Without it life and liberty make no sense and life worth to live it.
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Life, Liberty, OR the Pursuit of Happiness
- Thread starter shadowdude
- Start date
A'AbarachAmadan
Deity
Sensei once asked which was more important for Karate, the mind or the body. I pondered, but could not answer. The correct answer was they are equally important. I purport that the same applies here.
One thing that I've always wondered when reading this phrase: Isn't it redundant?
Doesn't liberty include the other two? Liberty, as Jefferson meant it (if I'm not mistaken), is the freedom to do anything that doesn't harm anyone else. This naturally includes living and pursuing happiness.
Doesn't liberty include the other two? Liberty, as Jefferson meant it (if I'm not mistaken), is the freedom to do anything that doesn't harm anyone else. This naturally includes living and pursuing happiness.
Life, duh. Liberty and happyness are nothing without it, and can never be free are happy.
With your logic, people in dictatorships (Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Aparditid South Afirca, etc..) should have killed themselves because it seem that liberity and happyness were out of reach. Yet they fell.
With your logic, people in dictatorships (Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Aparditid South Afirca, etc..) should have killed themselves because it seem that liberity and happyness were out of reach. Yet they fell.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
Very clever in putting all three together. Lets define liberty then. Liberty means the freedom to do what is right. Liberty does not mean just freedom, because then we could be free to our own thing and that is anarchy and that is not right.Mathilda said:I want to live so that I can be free to pursue happiness
The pursuit of happiness is such a subjective thing that it could mean anything to anyone. For some happiness could be have lots of sex and no worrying about the consequences of such actions. To others, happiness could be about making other lives a living hell.
What is life if you do not have liberty?
JohnRM
Don't make me destroy you
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
Standard mischief 
. I mean, it's hard to be dead and causing mischief, and mischief can be fun, a form of happiness. As for liberty, you're either being mischievious to people oppressing you, potentially gaining subtle influence, or you're doing something mischievious that involves getting out of your country to a place where you can get liberty.
That was a somewhat joking response, I'd go with liberty. Life without liberty isn't good and although you must be alive to pursuit happiness, you would be an oppressed person trying to be happy, and although it's possible not, you most likely are pursuiting happiness, but not getting any. By process of elimination, liberty is my choice.
. I mean, it's hard to be dead and causing mischief, and mischief can be fun, a form of happiness. As for liberty, you're either being mischievious to people oppressing you, potentially gaining subtle influence, or you're doing something mischievious that involves getting out of your country to a place where you can get liberty.That was a somewhat joking response, I'd go with liberty. Life without liberty isn't good and although you must be alive to pursuit happiness, you would be an oppressed person trying to be happy, and although it's possible not, you most likely are pursuiting happiness, but not getting any. By process of elimination, liberty is my choice.
Cuivienen said:
But sometimes happiness requires death, especially if one is philosophically or religiously inclined. Life in itself is not to be desired-- happiness is the intrinsically valuable thing.
Note-- I'm not picking on you particularly, others have said the same thing. Yours is just the most recent.
BasketCase
Username sez it all
More than one person has made the argument "I choose <liberty/POH> because you have to be alive in order to have <liberty/POH>".
The question posed wasn't exactly "You can only have ONE of these three--which one?" Rather, the question was which one is most important. Pulling the "I choose liberty. HA! That means I get life too!
" trick is kind of not fair.
Another thought: there are a lot of people all over the world where people have neither liberty nor POH, and basically no hope of ever getting either. But they go right on tilling the fields and tending to their families and just trying to survive. Clearly, they put life first, even if it's a miserable one.
The question posed wasn't exactly "You can only have ONE of these three--which one?" Rather, the question was which one is most important. Pulling the "I choose liberty. HA! That means I get life too!
" trick is kind of not fair. Another thought: there are a lot of people all over the world where people have neither liberty nor POH, and basically no hope of ever getting either. But they go right on tilling the fields and tending to their families and just trying to survive. Clearly, they put life first, even if it's a miserable one.
Blasphemous
Graulich
BasketCase*, we're hardwired to wanna survive. If every completely oppressed human since the beginning of time would have killed themselves, we would have long ago destroyed ourselves and ceased to exist.
As long as we maintain life there may one day be hope for our offspring to gain freedom and hapiness - no dictatorship has lasted forever.
*You may notice I'm not disagreeing with you, only adding a related thought.
As long as we maintain life there may one day be hope for our offspring to gain freedom and hapiness - no dictatorship has lasted forever.
*You may notice I'm not disagreeing with you, only adding a related thought.
CenturionV
Warrior Forever
Those are extremely vague, but if I had to chose, I would say liberty, though there really should be a property option, as it originally was. However really all 3 (life, liberty, and property) work together and are all important.
Benderino
Loyal American Democrat
"Give me liberty or give me death!"--Patrick Henry, probably in 1775 or so.
BasketCase
Username sez it all
@Blasphemous: We're also hardwired to pursue happiness and liberty, as well. Though we actually don't pursue liberty quite as hard. Humans are highly social creatures, and given a choice between liberty and conformity to social norms, the latter most often wins.
Edit (also @Blasphemous): I missed the fine print first time around.
Edit (also @Blasphemous): I missed the fine print first time around.
aneeshm
Deity
DP ********
Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
The liberty to pursuit happiness!
aneeshm
Deity
One without the others is pointless and logically impossible .
